Systems: Outfit certifications + Vehicle variants/sidegrades

[Lanka]

For starts, I search the forum&scanned through first 10 pages. If this has been discussed in detail - and in this context - it was probably on the page 11 and I'm sorry for making new post. Well, actually I'm not.. On with it.



Reading through the suggestions it occured to me that there's dozens of ideas for what people want current vehicles to do. Some of these require massive changes to the current vehicle configurations that probably would break them if they were just added as weapon/utility sidegrades/certs.

In their current form vehicles are very balanced sets of weapon/utility choises that players can pick&mix their ideal combination - however, they can hardly include special parts like active camo/invisibility or massive stat changes towards certain role.

I recall reading there will be Outfit certifications for specializing Outfits to chosen tasks, and we don't yet know what all they'll include. But all the special vehicles could very well fit under the specialization as variants of the common vehicles. System would enable various variants of the same common vehicle - for various roles with more specific set of customization options.

Player has certification for vehicle x + Outfit enables variant of x = player can customize&spawn the variant long as s/he's in the Outfit&Outfit keeps the certification. This would reduce number of special vehicles in the field - and give specilized Outfits more variety on their chosen path. Also it'd be possible to keep the number of variants in control by making them more expensive in certain resources or have additional cooldown timers.


So what all could you fit under the variants as their own vehicles? Ideally anything that'd use (mostly) same model as the current vehicle while offering something very different.

Here's some I've seen suggested&discussed - and where the variant(s) could fit in:
*Galaxy - Gunships, who wouldn't want them? Or Bombers? Replace the transport section with explosives sounds like a plan (of making expensive firework.) However there are more possible roles for a massive flying rhino than just slapping it full of guns; change all the seats to carrying overall reduced number of MAX units, or significantly reduce passenger seats to fit in vehicle/cargo space. Remove all the passenger capabilities and make it all spawn point with rudamentary spawn/repair pads for light vehicles and camo? It could even in some degree replace Loadstars.
*Liberator - I pondered if you could make a spyplane out of the Lib. Replace the main gunner's gun with targetting tool, change the weapons to be just self-defense - and add some handy gizmo like camo to make it harder to spot in the sky? Or the darklight. Or stripping armor plates off it, and fitting it for air-to-air combat. Really, what you couldn't think for 3 man heavy jet to do? Maybe even return of the bomber..
*Tanks (MBT/Lightning) - There's the back-and-forth argument over artillery units and that's one thing you could in some form slap on a tank - be it inaccurate rocket pods or massive barrels. Tank destroyers? Wouldn't that (at least by WoT logic) be just a tank with strong anti-armor weaponry and sacrifice everything else? Or replace the whole turret with anti-air weapons platform. Even variants with heavily stripped armor over boost in speed&handling - or vice versa for something that barely moves. Additional gunner slot(s) for taking over MG/AA turrets would fit here as well.
*Sunderer - throw out speculated spawning system for more passenger seats, or get in couple more MAX units? Or sacrifice most of the passengers for better spawning system with some additional supportive functions. And since there's demand for Galaxy Gunship - why not just slap half dozen more gunner slots in the Sunderer?


I left out fighter jets as so far they seem balanced and come with various weapons systems. Ofcourse nothing stops adding them into the variants list as well - there's always something you can strip off the craft and replace with something else.. Groundattack craft with no armor platings, no coaxial gun and really just tons of rockets and overall speed boost? It'd probably fall from someone looking at it meanly, but it could work.. And ATVs already have hardly anything you could fit into them - other than weapons they've got.

However shielded or unigunned MAX units could actually fit as Outfit sidegrades with their own weapon sets - assuming adding few dozen different configurations under usual MAX units would get messy.

[Saifoda]

Interesting ideas. Correct me if I'm wrong but what I think you're saying is that the outfit will unlock a special certification for vehicles AND the player has to unlock that certification as well? I'm not sure how I feel about that, especially considering that certs can't be uncerted to get the points back (maybe you could make an except for these specifically). An alternative to this would be having the outfit unlock a special cert for, say, the lightning, and if you have the lightning (and maybe if you've certed into it enough? like 10 or 15 or whatever) you will be able to have that cert so long as your outfit keeps it and so long as you're in that outfit.

Just off the top of my head here, I think I kinda like the idea of outfits having limited cert points in relation to the available outfit certs. Kinda like the old BR/cert system in PS1 -- you could never fully cert yourself out, but you could change it around. That way the outfits will be balanced in their own way by the token that no outfit could ever cert into everything.



So yeah, onto the specifics of what you've mentioned so far.


For the galaxy the whole gunship thing has been talked about a lot and it will probably ship as player-certed stuff. I could see an outfit cert (or player cert) being that the gal will not only have a respawn capability (like the old AMS) but have an AOE healing ability, or armor repair.

I like the lib ideas, but I'm not sure how I'd feel about certing it to be an air-to-air fighter; reavers/scythes/mosquitos already fit that role. You could also add radar cloaking (like modern stealth planes; B2's, F117's, F22's/35's etc...) for reduced armor.

Tanks: I like your ideas here, nothing really to add at this point.

On the sunderer I'm not sure adding more seats in lieu of the spawning (if it will be an option) will really be a viable ability -- sunderers already have a capacity of 12, but I could see making a MAX variant that maybe has 4 infantry slots (driver, 1 passenger/assistant driver, 2 gunners) and 4 MAX slots. On the same token as the gal options I listed above you could have those for the sundy as well, which basically will turn it into the old AMS (maybe even a cloaking option).

[KILLFACE]

As CO of a Air Cavalry Platoon. I really want to be able to respec a interceptor to work as a dedicated Anti Ground Jet. I don't like the look of that slow piece of bollocks they call a Anti Ground Jet one little bit. Sure a couple would be handy, but I'd much prefer most of my Anti Ground jets to be much more nimble than that, those slow smeggers will get in the way more than anything else. I've got over 150 hours (and 650 roadkills) on the Jet on 2142 and my favorite way of flying it was against Ground Targets. Should be able to spec it as either a A10, Fighter Bomber or Interceptor depending on requirements. As for the transports. I'd really be happy if I could cert one as a ECM/Extended Radar Jet, while the others have different bonus's for the other 2 such as 1 being able to respawn troopers while in the Air or another cloaked while on the ground from a certain distance(while flying would be handier but I do understand that balance thing)would be handier than you'd realize. And also the ability to change them from for example carrying 20inf+2Power Armor/12inf4-6PowerArmor/12inf+2PowerArmor+Vehicle/6inf+2vehicle/1tank or something like that would be incredibly handy considering that my Ladds arent packing anything that doesn't fly and the ability to go infantry heavy or pack a few heavy units depending on situation would be handier than you'd realize.

[Saifoda]

Whoa now slow down there killer. Now we'd all like our classes to be "the best." MAX guys want faster ROF and tighter groups. Tankers want more armor and bigger guns. And, as I live and breathe, fly boys want increased acceleration, tighter turning, better rockets, smaller profiles, higher flight ceilings, and faster top speeds.

Check yourself here my good sir. This is not a flyer game. This is not world of tanks. This isn't even a first person shooter (....ok it kind of is, but no more so than it is any other type). The various aspects of the gameplay here all need to be balanced together to make it a better experience for everybody. This means the flyers will be able to decently target ground vehicles and other flyers, and there'll be plenty of options for maximizing effectiveness at both. But remember, when it comes to stats and skill, the name of the game is balance. Just look at how PS1 ended up with the BFRs and mosquitoes.

[KILLFACE]

Did I say that?
I said a few things that really are necessary for a crew that's not packing Heavy Vehicles to compete, most critically the fact that the Anti Ground Jet looks about as useful as a Cock Flavored lollypop, I'd much prefer some decent sidegrade options for the interceptor personally. Especially for equipping a Fighter Bomber Squadron and stuff like that. Most of the other things would be nice but not really expected.

[Red Beard]

Originally Posted by Saifoda

Whoa now slow down there killer. Now we'd all like our classes to be "the best." MAX guys want faster ROF and tighter groups. Tankers want more armor and bigger guns. And, as I live and breathe, fly boys want increased acceleration, tighter turning, better rockets, smaller profiles, higher flight ceilings, and faster top speeds.

Check yourself here my good sir. This is not a flyer game. This is not world of tanks. This isn't even a first person shooter (....ok it kind of is, but no more so than it is any other type). The various aspects of the gameplay here all need to be balanced together to make it a better experience for everybody. This means the flyers will be able to decently target ground vehicles and other flyers, and there'll be plenty of options for maximizing effectiveness at both. But remember, when it comes to stats and skill, the name of the game is balance. Just look at how PS1 ended up with the BFRs and mosquitoes.

Gamespy thinks it's a shooter!

Agree with your post otherwise

[Saifoda]

Originally Posted by KILLFACE

Did I say that?
I said a few things that really are necessary for a crew that's not packing Heavy Vehicles to compete, most critically the fact that the Anti Ground Jet looks about as useful as a Cock Flavored lollypop, I'd much prefer some decent sidegrade options for the interceptor personally. Especially for equipping a Fighter Bomber Squadron and stuff like that. Most of the other things would be nice but not really expected.

Not in so many words, but the sentiment is all the same. And maybe try a friendlier disposition when you post and you'll receive one in return. This isn't the military, it's a computer game forum.

[KILLFACE]

I could say the same thing to you mate.

[Saifoda]

Ignored. Good luck with life

[Lanka]

Originally Posted by Saifoda

Interesting ideas. Correct me if I'm wrong but what I think you're saying is that the outfit will unlock a special certification for vehicles AND the player has to unlock that certification as well? I'm not sure how I feel about that, especially considering that certs can't be uncerted to get the points back (maybe you could make an except for these specifically). An alternative to this would be having the outfit unlock a special cert for, say, the lightning, and if you have the lightning (and maybe if you've certed into it enough? like 10 or 15 or whatever) you will be able to have that cert so long as your outfit keeps it and so long as you're in that outfit.

I'm quite sure the latter is what I tried to say. If you have a cert for a tank and the outfit opens up cert for its variant (be that one or multiple variants - in one or multiple certs) player can then customize&spawn the variant(s) - long as s/he stays in the outfit.

Requiring player to unlock the variants as well would be kind of silly since players don't have full control of which certs the outfit would keep - assuming outfits can reset their certs which seems likely.

[Saifoda]

Cool thanks for the clarification; that does make more sense.