NC weapons finally hit hard

[boogy]

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

I haven't seen any recent, within a day or two, patches that changed anything regarding weapons.

Oh nothing recent, sorry. I was waiting a bit to see how things played out before judging whether or not the improvements to their weapons did the trick.

[ChipMHazard]

Originally Posted by boogy

Oh nothing recent, sorry. I was waiting a bit to see how things played out before judging whether or not the improvements to their weapons did the trick.

Oh, ok. Makes sense then, was curious as to what recent change could have prompted this thread, heh.

[Wahooo]

Originally Posted by Bags

LOL guns... who gets out of their tank?

Fixed that for you.

[Kracken]

Originally Posted by Bags

I've always found VS / Tr weapons to be superior because of ease of use tbh.

My KD is way higher on my Vanu and TR characters, if you're into that sort of thing. The rate of fire/ability to actually hit your targets of most of the TR and Vanu weapons make the "greater" NC damage useless imo.

[Graywolves]

They made NC weapons more accurate and TR weapons less accurate a couple weeks.

The patch notes used wording such as "slower firing LMGs were given a slight increase to accuracy while moving." or something along those lines.



Don't think it was necessary but I'm not bothered by it.

[KaskaMatej]

Originally Posted by boogy

My observation is from fighting NC. They're a lot tougher now. Still not as tough as VS, but close. The change was in the patch where they also nerfed the TR.

If you don't have any objective data, just subjective, I will give you real changes.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...er=true&gid=22

[Juryrig]

Originally Posted by KaskaMatej

If you don't have any objective data, just subjective, I will give you real changes.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...er=true&gid=22

That's really helpful, thanks.

Are these stats extracted form the game files?

I'd given up on my NC as my Vanu was just so much more fun to play ('cos I'm crap and it's easier) I need to go back and try again

[KaskaMatej]

Originally Posted by Juryrig

That's really helpful, thanks.

Are these stats extracted form the game files?

Yes.

[Ghoest9]

Anyone who thinks NC is particularly powerful is deluded.

The devs seems to have closed the gap an many weapons though. Some require bursting - which is fine but hatrd for some players.
And the especially slow firing NC weapons still have a bit of shake lock compared to other guns when both players are shooting at each other but mostly its close even.

[Beerbeer]

Recoil has and always will be a wildcard in regards to gun balancing.

It's too subjective to balance with just because some people can control it better than others and consequently, changes to this mechanic will widely swing overall balance across the entire population, with good shooters benefitting no matter what, but the average gunner taking big hits or big gains one way or the other.

The only characteristics that can be balanced equally IMO, without any player skill involved, are damage per bullet and rof, which can equate to an overall average damage per second. That's why I believe NC guns are just so hit or miss (no pun intended) as the devs use recoil as a heavy balancing mechanism for this empire, more than any others.

[Bierno]

I am a VS player with 4.4 KDR and I avoid NC players now...
They didnt really do anything to them, just people are learning how to shoot their gun finally. I just go after the TR Zerg since i play Waterson.

Last night and this morning been crappy to play Planetside 2 tho. It feel everybody are using Tank and Aircraft. Must be the 3x Station Cash + 15% weapon sale...

I really wish Planetside 2 was more focus on infantry battles and not this Tankside 2 shit
hopefully there will be new zones content that more citysapes/biolab etc so i dont have to deal with random HE tank and rocketpods

Lack of AA/AV lately

[Electrofreak]

Originally Posted by WarbirdTD

However, there are is a vocal group amongst the NC that are COMPLETELY AWFUL PLAYERS and are of the opinion that their guns should be better in any circumstance at any range.

What a ridiculously ignorant statement. Every faction has an equal number of completely awful players. There isn't some sort of factor that prompts bad players to pick the blue and yellow guys.

The reality is that NC weapons accuracy when firing tend to degrade than faster than comparable TR and VS weapons and this requires them to be fired in shorter bursts. The problem is that this isn't well explained to NC players who are left wondering why they lose in engagements at equal range where both players fire at full auto.

And in specific circumstances, firing in bursts isn't always an option when your opponent can land those 7-8 bullets needed for a kill without having to burst fire.

NC weapons are thus situational.

At longer ranges, they perform well as they hit harder than usual and can be single-shot fired with good accuracy.

At medium ranges, they suffer as they quickly become inaccurate and require burst firing in situations where the opponent can burst fire for longer. While mathematically this can seem balanced as they tend to have more damage per bullet, it means that if the RNG chooses to send a bullet astray of the target, it's less forgiving than the weapons wielded by the opposition.

At short ranges they generally perform fairly well again, as the inaccuracy is often less of an issue, particularly when hip-fired. In situations where both players are aiming for the head however, the medium range scenario can apply.

So NC players need to take care to handle their weapons differently in different situations moreso than the TR and VS weapons which are a bit more forgiving in MOST circumstances. This hardly makes NC players terrible.

EDIT - And in before the "butbutbut X weapon for the NC is different", yes, some weapons like the GD-7 are an exception; in that case more of an anomaly, and it showcases my point because of how many people use that weapon instead of the alternatives. In my post I speak in general terms about NC weapons as a whole. Also understand that I've only played sporadically in the last week or two and so I can't speak with authority regarding any recent changes.

[Daliahita]

Originally Posted by Bierno

I really wish Planetside 2 was more focus on infantry battles and not this Tankside 2 shit
hopefully there will be new zones content that more citysapes/biolab etc so i dont have to deal with random HE tank and rocketpods

Lack of AA/AV lately

Agreed! But I do believe there are enough Bio Labs. We don't have a vehicle problem on Jaeger, but I do hear a lot of stuff about Waterson. Most of the people who complain about vehicle balance come from there, and I guess I don't understand their complaints that well for that reason.

[WarbirdTD]

EDIT - And in before the "butbutbut X weapon for the NC is different", yes, some weapons like the GD-7 are an exception; in that case more of an anomaly, and it showcases my point because of how many people use that weapon instead of the alternatives. In my post I speak in general terms about NC weapons as a whole. Also understand that I've only played sporadically in the last week or two and so I can't speak with authority regarding any recent changes.

So this is your disclaimer? So that I should feel bad about tearing your post apart because you have no idea what you're talking about? And you don't want to talk about individual weapons, but just "in general terms about NC weapons as a whole," otherwise it proves your point... What? What if ALL stock NC weapons (AF-19, Gauss SAW, Gauss Rifle) are harder hitting AND more accurate at range? That would mean, "in general terms", that you are wrong.

What a ridiculously ignorant statement. Every faction has an equal number of completely awful players.

Nope, not gonna help you. The statement was that a group of NC players that were bad were ALSO very vocal, NOT that all (or even most) NC players are bad and therefore whiners. Haven't caught Abaddon or Str8dumpin complaining about weapon balance here. Thanks for completely missing the boat on this one and calling me ignorant. Do you see 15 threads on PSU whining about TR having more recoil AND lower damage per bullet? No, they're probably busy figuring out which guns to use to combat the NC. Speaking of,

NC weapons are thus situational.

At longer ranges, they perform well as they hit harder than usual and can be single-shot fired with good accuracy.

At medium ranges, they suffer as they quickly become inaccurate and require burst firing in situations where the opponent can burst fire for longer. While mathematically this can seem balanced as they tend to have more damage per bullet, it means that if the RNG chooses to send a bullet astray of the target, it's less forgiving than the weapons wielded by the opposition.

At short ranges they generally perform fairly well again, as the inaccuracy is often less of an issue, particularly when hip-fired. In situations where both players are aiming for the head however, the medium range scenario can apply.

At longer ranges, carbines and LMGs should be a non-issue. That should be the realm of sniper rifles, scout rifles, and maybe medic rifles. The fact that an AF-19 or a Solstice even has a chance to compete with a scout rifle is a problem. Single-fire on a Gauss SAW from that range is less viable, but still possible.
At medium ranges, your RNG argument doesn't hold up, because your recoil is predictable. You wont have bullets going "left, center, right-up, high-right, (pause to regain control), refire" because you don't have TR guns (our horizontal recoil for most guns means that, under fire, our recoil goes up and to the right). Stock NC weapons, on the other hand, make a nearly straight vertical line at short and medium range, requiring a subtle downwards adjustment with your mouse. Yes, you might have to stop firing for half a second to regain control (because we're not Vanu).
At short range, NC weapon performance is far and away better, not "fairly well." They own, and the reason that they own is because of the increased damage per bullet and minimal recoil while hip-firing, even without modifications, meaning that you can build for medium-long range and still be competitive at short. Most TR players on the other hand are trying to find either weapons that are good at medium range (TMG-50) OR weapons that excel in short range hip-fire scenarios(CARV-S or MSW-R).

So NC players need to take care to handle their weapons differently in different situations moreso than the TR and VS weapons which are a bit more forgiving in MOST circumstances.

This is true simply because their guns are competitive in all different situations (thus making them imbalanced to begin with). You find me a single stock TR weapon that is superior in all of these same scenarios, and I'll be shocked.

[RSphil]

the Nc weapons have always hit hard its just they are crap with the spread. it needs toning down still. all other weapons have less damage but high ROF to make up for less dmg which is fine my only problem every one elses weapons are accurate and NC suck on rapid fire, even short bursts they are still bad which makes makes all other faction weapons superior imo. they need accuracy tweaking a little more