we need to see the scat max stats. ( devs please read)

[Assist]

Originally Posted by Sledgecrushr

Wow, step away from the bong. Dude you must be high saying the hacksaw max has good range. Its been demonstrated that max vs max @ 20 meters it takes a hacksaw max 53 rounds of ammo and count them THREE RELOADS to kill either a tr or vs max. Just calling you out on your utter nonsense bro.

Why do you assume I care about Max vs. Max? It's not utter nonsense, unless you put it into a category where it is.
Are you then going to say that 1v1 the Vanguard and Prowler are balanced? Or the Magrider and Vanguard are balanced? Let's put the Magrider and the Vanguard up against each other 1v1 like those testing scenarios. Do you really think the Magrider has a chance in hell? Does that mean according to your logic that the Magrider should be buffed?
Seriously, stop compartmentalizing your balancing. No one gives two shits about MAX vs. MAX.

I got killed by a Hacksaw MAX just yesterday at 40m+ with only two shots. As I said before, the unintended range of the Hacksaw needs to be looked at. I also NEVER said it has good range, you really should read what is written rather than flipping out at your own fictitious interpretations.

[Assist]

Originally Posted by Rumblepit

we dont need to see the scat max stats??? were you around to see how the data changed after the mag nerf? all mbts were balanced except for the prowler which got nerfed too.

your obviously clueless or bias if you dont think those stats need to come to light.

And since that change, all the changes they made have been reverted.

The only reason the Magrider cannot get on top of Scarred Mesa anymore is because they adjusted the physics in the game for all vehicles(remember when the lightning couldn't go up the hill?)

I know what I'm talking about, I know what changed and I know what's been changed. The data revealed by Higby ended up nerfing the Magrider into being utterly useless, not into being balanced. Now it's back to where it was before the nerf and people are once again using it. The data, in the end, did nothing useful to the balance of the game since it was all reverted.

[Dragonskin]

I brought it up before, but last night the mercy bug struck one of our MAXs again. It makes the mercy/cycler so inaccurate that a infantry unit can kill the max within close range... talking less than 10m here. I watched it happen against VS heavy assault in a hallway last night. Something happens to the COF and it just goes nuts. Can't hit anything accurately at any range once it happens.

Also why is MAX vs MAX being discussed so much? It's infantry vs max that this thing started about. No other max is as deadly as a scattermax vs infantry and that extends well past CQC engagements.

[Rumblepit]

Originally Posted by Assist

And since that change, all the changes they made have been reverted.

The only reason the Magrider cannot get on top of Scarred Mesa anymore is because they adjusted the physics in the game for all vehicles(remember when the lightning couldn't go up the hill?)

I know what I'm talking about, I know what changed and I know what's been changed. The data revealed by Higby ended up nerfing the Magrider into being utterly useless, not into being balanced. Now it's back to where it was before the nerf and people are once again using it. The data, in the end, did nothing useful to the balance of the game since it was all reverted.

lol really? cause i know for a fact that mags are not what they use to be. mbts are very balanced atm and this was do to the changes made in that patch. you are right though they did revert a few things from that patch and it need to be done because mags were not up to par. but you and i both know they only reverted % of the movement nerf. weapon damage and rof was never reverted. check the patch notes....

[DeltaGun]

Originally Posted by BIGGByran

The point of the Max Vs Max Video is to eliminate ALL VARIABLES. I caps that because it is the one thing that can throw off how effective any Max can be.

Artificially "removing" variables is not scientific. In fact, the test is flawed. It CHANGES the variables (movement variable -> no movement) so that the NC MAX must stand there and take the full magazine of the other MAXs while reloading without seeking cover. It will almost never happen like this in actual combat.

[DeltaGun]

Originally Posted by Rumblepit

lol really? cause i know for a fact that mags are not what they use to be. mbts are very balanced atm and this was do to the changes made in that patch. you are right though they did revert a few things from that patch and it need to be done because mags were not up to par. but you and i both know they only reverted % of the movement nerf. weapon damage and rof was never reverted. check the patch notes....

Magrider weapons were never altered (well the Saron lost 50 velocity). Where are you getting this stuff? How about you link said patch notes instead of telling us to find them, lol.

[Rumblepit]

Originally Posted by DeltaGun

Magrider weapons were never altered. Where are you getting this stuff? How about you link said patch notes instead of telling us to find them, lol.

where? i read all the patch notes. dont you? i would hope so they effect game development,and effect you as a player. it was awhile back ,but im pretty sure it was the rof on the suron that got nerfed with that patch... or around the same time.... also i believe strafing was nered and never reverted .



found some notes....




Saron Laser Cannon
Projectile speed decreased slightly. (The Saron has no bullet drop, while equivalent cannons do.)
MBTs

Magrider
Saron HRB
Slowed Projectile down slightly. It retains no projectile drop.

Made adjustments to the Magrider so that combining strafe and forward velocity no longer provides an advantage to hill climbing..




you can look it up yourself.... its public information

[DeltaGun]

Originally Posted by Rumblepit

where? i read all the patch notes. dont you? i would hope so they effect game development,and effect you as a player. it was awhile back ,but im pretty sure it was the rof on the suron that got nerfed with that patch... or around the same time.... also i believe strafing was nered and never reverted .



found some notes....




Saron Laser Cannon
Projectile speed decreased slightly. (The Saron has no bullet drop, while equivalent cannons do.)
MBTs

Magrider
Saron HRB
Slowed Projectile down slightly. It retains no projectile drop.


you can look it up yourself.... its public information

Rumble... nothing you quoted says they changed Mag weapon damage or RoF... moving on...

[Rumblepit]

Originally Posted by DeltaGun

Rumble... nothing you quoted says they changed Mag weapon damage or RoF... moving on...

lol guess you still didnt look up the patch notes and read them.....

i said" i THINK".......... it was" AWHILE ago",,,,but at least i read them and knew there were weapon changes made to the magrider.

but that dosnt matter..... those changes and that data balanced MBTs.... this is what i want with the maxes...lets stay on topic.

[Dragonskin]

Not sure about Rumblepit, but some people think that reduced velocity means reduced damage. That is why the whole soft point ammo is bad thing started.

Velocity only affects travel time to the target.

[Assist]

Originally Posted by Rumblepit

lol guess you still didnt look up the patch notes and read them.....

i said" i THINK".......... it was" AWHILE ago",,,,but at least i read them and knew there were weapon changes made to the magrider.

but that dosnt matter..... those changes and that data balanced MBTs.... this is what i want with the maxes...lets stay on topic.

That data did not balance MBT's. The data that was shown was specifically regarding the K/D of Magriders and Higby attributed that to the movement of the Magrider. (Even though he promised me the week before he wouldn't be nerfing the movement of the Magrider - Never Forget!)
Later they realized it wasn't so much the Magrider needed nerfed but that the other tanks needed their damage buffed. Which turned out to be true for the Vanguard, but a load of crap for the Prowler as it was once again nerfed back. Movement wasn't even part of the equation which is the thing this community, the reddit community, and the PS2 official forums all railed against for a month straight. They were straight up wrong and it's a shame that those same people don't admit to it now.

Comparing the NC MAX vs other MAX at range is like comparing the Magrider to other MBT's if neither can move. You're taking away the biggest advantage of the MAX and therefore drawing absolutely no valuable data. Anyone who thinks the NC MAX should be comparable to the others at range is ridiculous, that's like claiming shotgun users should be as good at 50m+ as they are at 10m. That's not the point of balance at all, in fact anyone in this thread crying for changes like that should be shamed from the PS2 community because they're asking for a 1-faction game
.
The NC MAX is perfectly fine as is, regardless of what the data numbers show. Just like the Magrider was fine as is, regardless of what the data was showing. If they want the NC MAX to be the close range specialist MAX that's fine, but they need to give the TR/VS MAX something that makes them unique as well. The VS/TR MAX are damn near identical right now, outside the AV weapons, which makes them bland and boring. I personally don't play one because I'm more of a target and I can't kill infantry nearly as fast as my LA/HA. They need to give me a reason to play the MAX, because as it is right now I can kill infantry, vehicles, and other MAX's faster as my LA than as a VS MAX. The same cannot be said for the NC, the Scat/Hax MAX can kill infantry as quick if not faster than the LA in all CQC engagements which happen to be 90% of the infantry fights in PS2(hence the current crying for shotgun nerfs).

[Chewy]

Originally Posted by Assist

That data did not balance MBT's. The data that was shown was specifically regarding the K/D of Magriders and Higby attributed that to the movement of the Magrider. (Even though he promised me the week before he wouldn't be nerfing the movement of the Magrider - Never Forget!)
Later they realized it wasn't so much the Magrider needed nerfed but that the other tanks needed their damage buffed. Which turned out to be true for the Vanguard, but a load of crap for the Prowler as it was once again nerfed back. Movement wasn't even part of the equation which is the thing this community, the reddit community, and the PS2 official forums all railed against for a month straight. They were straight up wrong and it's a shame that those same people don't admit to it now.

Comparing the NC MAX vs other MAX at range is like comparing the Magrider to other MBT's if neither can move. You're taking away the biggest advantage of the MAX and therefore drawing absolutely no valuable data. Anyone who thinks the NC MAX should be comparable to the others at range is ridiculous, that's like claiming shotgun users should be as good at 50m+ as they are at 10m. That's not the point of balance at all, in fact anyone in this thread crying for changes like that should be shamed from the PS2 community because they're asking for a 1-faction game
.
The NC MAX is perfectly fine as is, regardless of what the data numbers show. Just like the Magrider was fine as is, regardless of what the data was showing. If they want the NC MAX to be the close range specialist MAX that's fine, but they need to give the TR/VS MAX something that makes them unique as well. The VS/TR MAX are damn near identical right now, outside the AV weapons, which makes them bland and boring. I personally don't play one because I'm more of a target and I can't kill infantry nearly as fast as my LA/HA. They need to give me a reason to play the MAX, because as it is right now I can kill infantry, vehicles, and other MAX's faster as my LA than as a VS MAX. The same cannot be said for the NC, the Scat/Hax MAX can kill infantry as quick if not faster than the LA in all CQC engagements which happen to be 90% of the infantry fights in PS2(hence the current crying for shotgun nerfs).

Why are you derailing this thread? The unique qualities of MBTs make them just about useless in this debate yet you can't shut up about them. MAXes are just about carbon copies of each other. The only things to set them apart are the weapons they are limited to, and that is the problem here. WEAPONS, not the MAXes themselves. With the the MBTs faction unique armor values, front/side/back/top plating, movement speeds, movement types, and weapon styles they CAN'T be compared to this debate.

HMGs are reliable to use EVERYWHERE, shotguns have only CQC. Getting killed at 40m by a shotgun is pure random chance, it's random to kill infantry at 20m under perfect conditions add in variables and it becomes random at 10m-15m.

If anything Assist you should be trying to help out your factions MAX in some way before bitching about MBTs in threads that have nothing to do with them. Iv posted my 3 videos on this site (on page 10 on this thread) and in the main PS2 forums and something very clear stands out about them. TR and NC videos have 70 views, the VS video has 30. Either there are no complaints about VS MAXes or NO ONE CARES ABOUT THEM. Not even the VS! Instead of mourning over the Mag nerf you guys should be asking why so little people care about your MAXes.

If they are the copies of the TR MAX as you claim they are then they should be JUST as good as them if not better with their higher base damage, shorter reload time, and faster ROF. ( https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...1E&output=html )

[BIGGByran]

Originally Posted by DeltaGun

Artificially "removing" variables is not scientific. In fact, the test is flawed. It CHANGES the variables (movement variable -> no movement) so that the NC MAX must stand there and take the full magazine of the other MAXs while reloading without seeking cover. It will almost never happen like this in actual combat.

This is the test how deadly/effective the weapons are. The test proves that the NC Max is deadly up to 5m (and some cases up to 10m) but useless pass that. MAX are copies of each other, armor, HP, movement, etc etc, except for weapons. The only thing that makes 1 max different from another is the weapon. (and the look but that doesn't affect game play.)

If you believe that "actual" combat is the real test, then I have died plenty of times to TR/VS Max. They need a major nerf! Mind you that I was at half or less HP than them, but doesn't change the fact that they have killed me in actual combat.

Actual Combat has to much variables to change the effectiveness of the Maxs. A max with support will dominate any max without support. Does that mean the max with support is op? No.

A Max with 34 kills to his 1 death may look OP, but what if it was because he kepted going back and getting repairs, playing smart, and had good support. Does that mean he is OP? No

How about a Max that never got any kills and died every time he spawned. Does that mean he needs a buff? No and the variable there could be the player is new, the fought against smarter players, or just had bad luck.

Even if you put 1 vs 1 max with no interference from other players, the player skill is still the variable. 1 Max player maybe better than the other and maybe at different times of the day they are better. I find it strange that in the mornings when I wake up, I suck. I die 5-15 times before I get a kill, but in the afternoons and evenings, it is reverse. kill 5-15 people before I die. Player skill varies through out the day and it varies on his mood.

[Assist]

Originally Posted by Chewy

Why are you derailing this thread? The unique qualities of MBTs make them just about useless in this debate yet you can't shut up about them. MAXes are just about carbon copies of each other. The only things to set them apart are the weapons they are limited to, and that is the problem here. WEAPONS, not the MAXes themselves. With the the MBTs faction unique armor values, front/side/back/top plating, movement speeds, movement types, and weapon styles they CAN'T be compared to this debate.

HMGs are reliable to use EVERYWHERE, shotguns have only CQC. Getting killed at 40m by a shotgun is pure random chance, it's random to kill infantry at 20m under perfect conditions add in variables and it becomes random at 10m-15m.

If anything Assist you should be trying to help out your factions MAX in some way before bitching about MBTs in threads that have nothing to do with them. Iv posted my 3 videos on this site (on page 10 on this thread) and in the main PS2 forums and something very clear stands out about them. TR and NC videos have 70 views, the VS video has 30. Either there are no complaints about VS MAXes or NO ONE CARES ABOUT THEM. Not even the VS! Instead of mourning over the Mag nerf you guys should be asking why so little people care about your MAXes.

If they are the copies of the TR MAX as you claim they are then they should be JUST as good as them if not better with their higher base damage, shorter reload time, and faster ROF. ( https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...1E&output=html )

I suggest you read my post.

It answers what MBT's and MAX's have to do with each other. It answers that the data that this thread is about won't bring any sort of balance to the game. It answers why no one cares about the VS MAX. It also answers why no one is viewing your videos. No one cares about the VS MAX because it does nothing that cannot be done as efficiently or more efficiently than the LA(besides bursters). Your views on the videos could also be related to the fact that VS numbers are dwindling day by day on every server, why care about VS when you can just go roll NC/TR ?
I personally don't care about the VS MAX because I won't use it. They won't make it as good as the NC MAX in CQC and that's the only place I'd have interest in using a 'meat shield', which is what the MAX unit is supposed to be.

Sorry if you believe otherwise, but I was on topic the entire time and used analogies from previous events in PS2 to compare the similarities. I never bitched about MBT's in the post either. Also what is your base for your argument for MAX's all being the same? Last I checked they wanted to make the MAX's differentiated by faction, considering they're giving each MAX their own unique ability and all of their weapons are supposed to be unique to the faction. Oh, and they cost resources, very similar to how vehicles have costs, wonder if that fits under any analogies I used?

Read more, it'll help with understanding.

[Neutral Calypso]

The bitching will (mostly) end when NC maxes have HMGs and all the other maxes have shotties.

In addition to the weapons they already have access to, of course.