Tank rear armour versus Pods

[HiroshiChugi]

Originally Posted by PredatorFour

Fair enough then why don't us flyers get weak spots?

Because our armor is our weakspot. ESF's have very little armour to begin with, so giving them even lesser armour in certain spots would just make them completely useless.

[Maarvy]

Getting rear loled is maddening sometimes , although its possible to avoid and out heal 1 lol podder and much easier to avoid in a magrider than any other mbt .

Let top armour cover the rear plate too so they can withstand 1 volley ... but only just .meaning a decent pilot will still finish you with his rotary if you dont react or repair real quick .

[Thunderhawk]

The time it takes you to unload a full clip of ammo (and it has to be a full clip) into the rear of a MBT varies slightly depending on faction. I don't have the numbers to hand (so apologies), but lets say roughly between 3 seconds and 7 seconds ?

Either way, its either 3 secs or more.... and if an ESF is being hit by FLAK by even 1 (YES ONE) AA source for 3 seconds, it's toast, even with Full Composite armour.

Its a matter of Rock-Paper-Scissors

[snafus]

Originally Posted by PredatorFour

Fair enough then why don't us flyers get weak spots? or sundys even ? In the games current state every vehicle should have a weak spot if this is the case imo. You should be given the choice to make the weak spot stronger, but sacrifice another area.

My real hope however is that somewhere along the line they get rid of the rear weak spot and make it like the original planetside. After all the new AV weapons in the game the weak spots maybe wont be needed in the future.

Our weakness is any form of projectile in the game can harm us. not even considering the much higher skill gap between driving a tank and an ESF. And don't forget that unless your a prowler it only takes one shot from your main gun to to ruin that ESF day.

[Assist]

Originally Posted by Gimpylung

It would be nice if damage from rocketpods specifically to tanks sensitive fat arses was reduced so that they can't make dust out of me in just one pass.

I was never an ESF pilot, and never bought rocket pods until two weeks ago because I always found them cheap. I bought them because I was tired of getting killed by ESF's in one pass, so I figured I may as well join the crowd and become a lame-ass like the rest of the rocketpod scrubs.

Having them now, seeing how difficult it is to use them and shoot a tank in the ass, I have to say that they're even easier than I ever imagined.

I seriously hope they nerf rocketpods into the ground even more. I can make a pass at full speed and take out a tank, with 0 chance of being destroyed as long as my flares are up. In most cases two bursters wouldn't even have a chance to kill me, unless it was my 3rd/4th/5th pass in a row. But as it is right now, the rocketpods to a tank are the equivilent of a shotgun to the face. No warning, ridiculous reward, and 0 threat unless you overstay your welcome.

[Gimpylung]

I'm talking about situations within the context of a large battle with many other things going on. Surrounded by friendly armour and infantry and friendly AA covering.

While I appreciate that its annoying that AA can make you fly away and deny your, invariably, guaranteed kill occasionally I would ask that you genuinely consider the plight of the tanker.

We can't fly away from land mines, c4 light assaults, mana turrets, decis, standard launchers, lock on launchers, ESAV and annihilators. There's also the minor issue of the other enemy tanks and AV base turrets that we have to deal with. But I can cope with all that, coz thats ground based stuff and that's the 2D plane that I exist on.

What I can't cope with is the suggestion that I give up my secondary AV or AI cannon and swap it for an AA gun to merely chase of ESF's and act purely as a counter to a particularly cheap attack from the air.

You guys appear to be defending your right to get soft kills because it's so hard to be a pilot these days and you continually have to break off attacks and fly away. Escape, what a luxury.

I'll be engaging armour on the ground, with multiple lock-ons from infantry launchers lighting me up and c4 lights running about, I can cope with all that, then out of the blue a barrage of pods hits me in the rear and my tank is dust in 3 seconds and thats that.

You guys have to deal with AA that makes you fly away, I just die, no other options. And please don't tell me that flanking around low behind a battle in an ESF and swooping in behind a couple of tanks, wiping one out and flying off before the AA even sees you is hard or skillful guys. Cmon guys. I don't exist in some tanker bubble where that is the limit of my experience and have no concept of what it is to fly or have never spoken to an experienced flyer.

I'm not suggesting an across the boards buff to tanks, or a nerf to your pods guys. I'm merely suggesting that I have the option to choose a useful top armour that might actually be worth swapping out mineguard or front/side armour to use.

I think its a reasonable suggestion.

[GraniteRok]

The majority of my time being a ground pounder, I agree that rocket pods are too powerful, infantry and vehicles. Tanks are much to vulnerable to rockets. It should take a couple of passes to kill a tank. I'd hate to say nerf the damage although I believe they still are but maybe widen the cone? If a pilot wants to land every shot, they should have to get up close and personal. These guys that hang back just at render distance and spam rockets shouldn't be able to pinpoint hit anything.

One thing that came to mind back with the pilots had the 'no lock on' warning and there was a massive cryfest about that. Us tankers get nothing when ordnance is coming in such as rockets or lib cannon fire. Maybe if we had a warning tone that something is on the way so we can do some evasive maneuvers.

[Dragonskin]

Originally Posted by GraniteRok

The majority of my time being a ground pounder, I agree that rocket pods are too powerful, infantry and vehicles. Tanks are much to vulnerable to rockets. It should take a couple of passes to kill a tank. I'd hate to say nerf the damage although I believe they still are but maybe widen the cone? If a pilot wants to land every shot, they should have to get up close and personal. These guys that hang back just at render distance and spam rockets shouldn't be able to pinpoint hit anything.

One thing that came to mind back with the pilots had the 'no lock on' warning and there was a massive cryfest about that. Us tankers get nothing when ordnance is coming in such as rockets or lib cannon fire. Maybe if we had a warning tone that something is on the way so we can do some evasive maneuvers.

You want a warning tone for a missile coming at your general area that may not even be aimed directly at you? I'll pass. I don't want 20 warnings going off when I am near other tanks. That would be highly annoying.

The "cryfest" was simply that lock-ons didn't give warning. That was changed and you get the same warning that pilots get when you are locked-on. So it works both ways.

I can't seriously see how you guys think ESFs are OP against tanks. WTF else are rocketpods for? It takes an entire clip to kill your tank. You can 1 shot a ESF (2-shot as a TR) with your main gun. You have the option of not being derka and having a 2nd gunner just to defend you against ESFs if you wanted. You could slot top armor and simply move either backwards or forwards to cause the rockets to hit the top armor. You could get rival chassis upgrades so that you can turn your butt faster. If you are VS you can magburn away from the damage and if you are NC you can pop your shield to negate the damage completely. TR get slightly screwed, but the TR tank is different than the other 2 in general anyway with anchormode being more of an offensive ability instead of defensive like the other 2. The fact is that you can't be bothered to to change your build to combat ESFs and instead just want them nerfed.

Speaking of crap no one uses. Who uses IR smoke? No one. Ever. Actually a few people have, but in my 9 days of playing time I can count on my hand how many times I have seen someone use IR smoke. I can't stand when people cry about getting killed with rockets in a tank.

[Assist]

Originally Posted by Dragonskin

You want a warning tone for a missile coming at your general area that may not even be aimed directly at you? I'll pass. I don't want 20 warnings going off when I am near other tanks. That would be highly annoying.

The "cryfest" was simply that lock-ons didn't give warning. That was changed and you get the same warning that pilots get when you are locked-on. So it works both ways.

I can't seriously see how you guys think ESFs are OP against tanks. WTF else are rocketpods for? It takes an entire clip to kill your tank. You can 1 shot a ESF (2-shot as a TR) with your main gun. You have the option of not being derka and having a 2nd gunner just to defend you against ESFs if you wanted. You could slot top armor and simply move either backwards or forwards to cause the rockets to hit the top armor. You could get rival chassis upgrades so that you can turn your butt faster. If you are VS you can magburn away from the damage and if you are NC you can pop your shield to negate the damage completely. TR get slightly screwed, but the TR tank is different than the other 2 in general anyway with anchormode being more of an offensive ability instead of defensive like the other 2. The fact is that you can't be bothered to to change your build to combat ESFs and instead just want them nerfed.

Speaking of crap no one uses. Who uses IR smoke? No one. Ever. Actually a few people have, but in my 9 days of playing time I can count on my hand how many times I have seen someone use IR smoke. I can't stand when people cry about getting killed with rockets in a tank.

IR smoke takes the place of the Magburner I believe, so.. yeah. You really think that's a good swap out?
Also, it doesn't take anywhere near a full clip to kill a tank, as it's extremely easy to get behind a tank when you're in the air. I think it's only 4 rounds of rocket pods to kill a tank from behind? Maybe 5? I know it's not anywhere near the full clip, as I do it every day now because it's the best XP in the game to farm tanks/lightnings currently. 90k/hr, using only rocket pods without double XP is not balanced O.o
Also, I'd love to see a Magrider hit 1/10 shots on an ESF. If a Magrider is even able to aim high enough to hit the ESF, than that pilot is a complete turd

[GraniteRok]

Suggestion only. More intended that we have an incoming rounds from air. And about the "cryfest", welcome to our world, every day not just during that bug. And yes, most believe rocket pods are OP against everything.

Originally Posted by Dragonskin

You want a warning tone for a missile coming at your general area that may not even be aimed directly at you? I'll pass. I don't want 20 warnings going off when I am near other tanks. That would be highly annoying.

The "cryfest" was simply that lock-ons didn't give warning. That was changed and you get the same warning that pilots get when you are locked-on. So it works both ways.

I can't seriously see how you guys think ESFs are OP against tanks. WTF else are rocketpods for? It takes an entire clip to kill your tank. You can 1 shot a ESF (2-shot as a TR) with your main gun. You have the option of not being derka and having a 2nd gunner just to defend you against ESFs if you wanted. You could slot top armor and simply move either backwards or forwards to cause the rockets to hit the top armor. You could get rival chassis upgrades so that you can turn your butt faster. If you are VS you can magburn away from the damage and if you are NC you can pop your shield to negate the damage completely. TR get slightly screwed, but the TR tank is different than the other 2 in general anyway with anchormode being more of an offensive ability instead of defensive like the other 2. The fact is that you can't be bothered to to change your build to combat ESFs and instead just want them nerfed.

Speaking of crap no one uses. Who uses IR smoke? No one. Ever. Actually a few people have, but in my 9 days of playing time I can count on my hand how many times I have seen someone use IR smoke. I can't stand when people cry about getting killed with rockets in a tank.

[Assist]

Originally Posted by GraniteRok

Suggestion only. More intended that we have an incoming rounds from air. And about the "cryfest", welcome to our world, every day not just during that bug. And yes, most believe rocket pods are OP against everything.

I actually think Rocketpods are in a good spot against Infantry. But against MBT's and Lightnings, they're not even remotely in a good spot. I think it does have to do completely with the rear damage.

[Dragonskin]

Originally Posted by Assist

IR smoke takes the place of the Magburner I believe, so.. yeah. You really think that's a good swap out?
Also, it doesn't take anywhere near a full clip to kill a tank, as it's extremely easy to get behind a tank when you're in the air. I think it's only 4 rounds of rocket pods to kill a tank from behind? Maybe 5? I know it's not anywhere near the full clip, as I do it every day now because it's the best XP in the game to farm tanks/lightnings currently. 90k/hr, using only rocket pods without double XP is not balanced O.o
Also, I'd love to see a Magrider hit 1/10 shots on an ESF. If a Magrider is even able to aim high enough to hit the ESF, than that pilot is a complete turd

Did I say use IR smoke and magburn? No I don't believe so. Tanks are nice exp.. my striker likes them, but from a exp standpoint sunderers are generally easier to kill due to lack of range to retaliate and they reward more exp per kill. So no.. most people aren't going around farming tanks for fast exp. Sunderers are and always have been the number 1 source of exp. They generate infantry kills and a high exp payout for vehicle destruction.

Look, I play with my prowler more than my mossie. You can look at my TR character if you want. I just don't see the justification even as a tanker. If you are getting you butt blown out by ESFs then you are likely solo and farming infantry kills so you didn't notice the ESF sound coming at you, or see the shadow on the ground or bother to move your butt before you died.

Wish I could look up the play times of people complaining about ESFs. I bet most of you rarely use a ESF to know exactly what it takes to pull off those kills and how easy it is to die as an ESF in the current game. Feel free to look up both of my characters. My VS has considerable ESF time logged.

[Binkley]

Originally Posted by Dragonskin

If you are VS you can magburn away from the damage and if you are NC you can pop your shield to negate the damage completely.

Does the Vanguard shield really reduce damage to zero? I don't think so, as I often drive a Vanguard and I get killed with my shield on all the time. I don't know what the actual numbers are, 1/2 damage? 3/4 damage? but it's not zero damage.

Originally Posted by Dragonskin

Speaking of crap no one uses. Who uses IR smoke? No one. Ever. Actually a few people have, but in my 9 days of playing time I can count on my hand how many times I have seen someone use IR smoke. I can't stand when people cry about getting killed with rockets in a tank.

I use IR smoke on my Lightning. It's very effective, but on the Vanguard it's a choice between the smoke or the shield and the shield is better. If you are a pilot you aren't going to see the smoke used very often because it's not an effective counter to air attack. The rockets that make me cry (LOLpods and AV Turrets) aren't effected by IR smoke, it really only works against the lock-ons. I see lots of magriders using IR smoke when I try to hit them with lock-ons.

[Dragonskin]

Originally Posted by Binkley

Does the Vanguard shield really reduce damage to zero? I don't think so, as I often drive a Vanguard and I get killed with my shield on all the time. I don't know what the actual numbers are, 1/2 damage? 3/4 damage? but it's not zero damage.



I use IR smoke on my Lightning. It's very effective, but on the Vanguard it's a choice between the smoke or the shield and the shield is better. If you are a pilot you aren't going to see the smoke used very often because it's not an effective counter to air attack. The rockets that make me cry (LOLpods and AV Turrets) aren't effected by IR smoke, it really only works against the lock-ons. I see lots of magriders using IR smoke when I try to hit them with lock-ons.

Again... I didn't say use the shield and IR smoke... just like I didn't suggest using magburner and IR smoke. I am fully aware of what IR smoke is used for and my striker loves some tank action because throwing a number out of my butt... 98% of tankers don't use IR smoke.

As far as the shield damage.... umm you can have the nanite repair, activate the shield and get hit while the nanite repair still works. As discussed in the video below. So what does that tell you about damage with shield up?

[Gimpylung]

Anyways, when you're finished ranting there Dragon.

Maarvy's idea seems reasonable and along the lines of original suggestion. It's the one pass kill I have issue with.

Originally Posted by Maarvy

Getting rear loled is maddening sometimes , although its possible to avoid and out heal 1 lol podder and much easier to avoid in a magrider than any other mbt .

Let top armour cover the rear plate too so they can withstand 1 volley ... but only just .meaning a decent pilot will still finish you with his rotary if you dont react or repair real quick .