Combat Medic Developments

[Chaff]

.
The Biological "infection" idea is quite interesting. First, it must be structured to absolutely prevent exploitation.......guys from "other" empires will log on as YOUR Empire, and, after their buddies shoot them .... they would intentionally run around spreading the virus - if that loophole is left open.

The virus could be shot into the enemy zerg somewhere ..... those in the damage field (Infection Zone) would auto-transport .....back to the nearest SUNDY of base/outpost their Empire owns at that time. If there was a Medic from their Empire at their "Bio-Infection Cooldown" Station, their own Empire Medic could drastically speed up the "anti-biotic heal" to remove the "infection". Otherwise, "infected" have to stay in a friendly spawn (Infection ?) Room - which could make them wait 3 minutes before they can redeploy......there could be certs (or Implant ?) to counter this bio-warfare aspect. Some players would rage over this kind of inconvenience. It would sure add interesting wrinkles to the game ...... seems like a LOT of potential XP for Medics.....ALL infected could be auto-deployed to a Biological Decontamination Room at each Warpgate ..... it'd be the ONLY PLACE in each Empire Warpgate where one could gain XP towards gaining Certs. The Un-infection would be facilitated by Properly Certed Medics, or guys would have to wait-it-out. Then, Redploy back to where they want.....with option to return to where they got the infection. Once "cured" of an "infection", you are IMMUNE from catching it again for 1 hour. Sure, some Medics "seem" to be getting easy XP at the Warpgate, but they are NOT available on the front lines healing guys still fighting, so there's real strategic meaning behind this posters idea.

[Shamrock]

Global Agenda had Poison Medics, basically you could cert into offensive toxin skills, eg AoE poison gas grenades.

[Palerion]

Originally Posted by BlaxicanX

The medic doesn't need any buffs to its combat capability. It's already a member of the "holy trinity" of the classes that are required to win battles: Medic/Engineer/Heavy Assault.

If any classes need buffs to become more than just the niche/farm classes, it's the LA and Infiltrator.

Absolutely not true.

Look at the Engineer:

It is full of class-specific tools and gadgets that make it a viable option as a self-sufficient soldier.

• Proximity Mines
• Turrets
• Sticky Grenades
• Tank Mines

The engineer is not just a support class. Those "gadgets", if you will, make the class stand out a bit more as a defensive, trap-setting, fortification-building kind of class. It is designed to be an extremely effective killer in defensive situations. So, aside from the repair tools and ammo boxes, which are designed to give the class a support role, the engineer is given other tools for his own combat role in the battle.

Look at the Combat Medic:

It is lacking in class-specific utilities, weaponry, etc. to fulfill a combat role aside from its support role.

• AOE Heal
• Medical Applicator
• Healing Grenades
• Revive Grenades

As you can see, not a single one of these tools and/or abilities are made to give the combat medic an actual combat role (AOE heal is debatable; it is meant to heal those around the soldier, and is easily replaced as a self-healer by the medical applicator). They are all there so he can fulfill a support role. Just as the engineer is given a unique combat role outside of supplying ammo and repairing, the combat medic should be given a unique combat role outside of healing and reviving.

Both classes, aside from their support roles, should be their own type of soldier. Just as the engineer is given strong defensive capabilities, the combat medic, with its frontline offensive role, should be given strong offensive capabilities. Buff injections, protective shields, biological weapons/explosives, the combat medic is more than just a scrub patching up the wounds of others. It is an offensive soldier with an anti-infantry role that should be emphasized through its future developments.

[Whiteagle]

Originally Posted by Chaff

The Biological "infection" idea is quite interesting. First, it must be structured to absolutely prevent exploitation.......guys from "other" empires will log on as YOUR Empire, and, after their buddies shoot them .... they would intentionally run around spreading the virus - if that loophole is left open.

Well if worst comes to worst, you can always just euthanize anyone infected.

That's the thing, as a griefing tool it be a bit too weak to be anything more then an annoyance...

...Still, temporary immunity after being exposed but not dying might be necessary...

Could also be something like a Default for the Buff Injector, Antibiotics which would insta-cure an Infected.

[BlaxicanX]

Originally Posted by Palerion

Absolutely not true.

Look at the Engineer:

It is full of class-specific tools and gadgets that make it a viable option as a self-sufficient soldier.

• Proximity Mines
• Turrets
• Sticky Grenades
• Tank Mines

The engineer is not just a support class. Those "gadgets", if you will, make the class stand out a bit more as a defensive, trap-setting, fortification-building kind of class. It is designed to be an extremely effective killer in defensive situations. So, aside from the repair tools and ammo boxes, which are designed to give the class a support role, the engineer is given other tools for his own combat role in the battle.

Look at the Combat Medic:

It is lacking in class-specific utilities, weaponry, etc. to fulfill a combat role aside from its support role.

• AOE Heal
• Medical Applicator
• Healing Grenades
• Revive Grenades

As you can see, not a single one of these tools and/or abilities are made to give the combat medic an actual combat role (AOE heal is debatable; it is meant to heal those around the soldier, and is easily replaced as a self-healer by the medical applicator). They are all there so he can fulfill a support role. Just as the engineer is given a unique combat role outside of supplying ammo and repairing, the combat medic should be given a unique combat role outside of healing and reviving.

Both classes, aside from their support roles, should be their own type of soldier. Just as the engineer is given strong defensive capabilities, the combat medic, with its frontline offensive role, should be given strong offensive capabilities. Buff injections, protective shields, biological weapons/explosives, the combat medic is more than just a scrub patching up the wounds of others. It is an offensive soldier with an anti-infantry role that should be emphasized through its future developments.

Terrible argument. The notion that "Engineers have a whole bunch of stuff so medics should too!" is fallacious. Engineers are not medics. They're different classes with different roles- trying to compare them is apples to oranges.

The majority of what you just listed for Engineers are niche and highly situational, and none of it sans the repair gun is as useful as the healing gun, which literally, as an item, already has some of the highest utility in the game, being useful in basically every single situation. Engineers need to have a Mana turret and a repair gun on top of their mines because mines are basically useless outside of farming. In a game where people travel in massive caravans of vehicles and each team has unlimited manpower, killing one or two people or a couple of vehicles with your small handful of mines and bombs is nothing more than a slight irritation to the poor fool who got killed. By comparison, there is never a situation where being able to revive someone from 10 feet away with a magical healing gun that never runs out of ammo or needs to cool down, or having the ability to quickly heal everyone within your aura for free, is not useful. A couple decent medics can keep an entire push or defense alive when supply lines are cut off, an engineer can not. And this is on top of having an extremely solid assault rifle that's excellent at all ranges, and healing grenades, and revive grenades.

Medics are fine as they are. They're already solid front-line fighters and are a solid support class, not too mention one of the best farm classes in the game. If SoE wants to stack some more cool shit on them like zombie grenades or whatever, then okay, but let's not pretend that the class is in some dire need of an upgrade. There are other classes that are indeed in need of such an upgrade.

[Palerion]

Actually it was a fine argument.

I think your entire perception of the discussion is off a bit. I did not say the Combat Medic is in dire need of a revamp. But it's a feature listed in the roadmap, and I'm saying they don't need ten new ways to heal their allies. If they are going to recieve more utilities, it should be more offensive. They are a solid support class. You underestimate the MANA turret though. It is a valuable killing tool that is matched by no other in the game. Reviving is a powerful support capability, but like the engineer, he needs his own offensive utility.

When you get right down to it people aren't going to play the game just so they can heal people. You can keep using the assault rifle argument, but that's no match for a jetpack, an overshield, a turret, or a cloaking device. You simply can't leave a class with only support capabilities. There must be more to attract players to use it.

And, the Infiltrator and Light Assault need a buff in a different area. They need a more defined support role, to help their team and be of value. They kill just fine, using their cloaking and jetpacks to surprise their enemies. You have to understand what needs work in each of the classes; the changes we are suggesting to combat medic are to give him a combat job outside of his support role. The suggested changes for light assaults and infiltrators are to give them a support role.

[Gatekeeper]

I really think you underestimate how strong CMs actually are - IMO they're probably the best 1-on-1 killing class in the game, certainly at medium to short range. I don't play medic to support people (although I get a bunch of XP doing that anyway...) but because their AR is so damn strong and versatile.

I've got no objection to adding more variety to the CM, just for fun, but they certainly don't need any more power than they have already - and any extra offence they get should definitely come at the cost of their self-healing.

[Palerion]

Originally Posted by Gatekeeper

any extra offence they get should definitely come at the cost of their self-healing.

Which is the point. It is all meant to come at a tradeoff.

[Sledgecrushr]

I dont think the medic needs any extra offense. What I would like to see is more utility out of the combat medic. Soe has an opportunity to make the medic class different from the other classes by emphasizing its squad support role.

[Palerion]

But shouldn't every class be supporting its squad? The only difference is how they do it. You can make the class a straight support class, but it will result in the same thing: the majority of the population will stick with heavy assault as it is the only frontline killing class. I think the combat medic just fits the medium assault role and could use the option to give up its utility or ability for more assault-like utilities or abilities.

[Sledgecrushr]

Originally Posted by Palerion

But shouldn't every class be supporting its squad? The only difference is how they do it. You can make the class a straight support class, but it will result in the same thing: the majority of the population will stick with heavy assault as it is the only frontline killing class. I think the combat medic just fits the medium assault role and could use the option to give up its utility or ability for more assault-like utilities or abilities.

I think what you are asking for is kind of an op endlessly self healing heavy assault clone. And we shouldnt really go down this path. Combat medic with arguably the best rifle in the game plus hand grenades plus c4 allthe while endlessly self healing is already an awesome front line trooper. So now the consensus seems to be a weapon delivery device that can literally kill everyone in the game?

My vote is for more utility. Keep the cm as a competent front line soldier and expand the options on helping their squad mates to win battles.

[Palerion]

And more utilities is fine; but, it must be something other than a new way to heal. That just doesn't seem innovative or fun in any way.

[Sledgecrushr]

And I completely agree. Combat medic right now has healing and rezzing down to a fine art. But there are other routes that can be pursued in making a cm more effective as a utility player for itself and his/her squad. I think if done right this class could be fun for that chunk of people who cant shoot straight. Thats a big demographic for soe to get into.

[Palerion]

For people who can't shoot straight? Same deal as global agenda. But by that do you mean it kills without having to shoot straight, or it is just a support class? I come from battlefield, so when I play medic, I'm used to also being a powerful killing force.

[Juryrig]

Originally Posted by Palerion

For people who can't shoot straight? Same deal as global agenda. But by that do you mean it kills without having to shoot straight, or it is just a support class? I come from battlefield, so when I play medic, I'm used to also being a powerful killing force.

People who can't shoot straight (ie - me. I really am woeful) get to feel a lot less useless by having a bunch of utility stuff we can do that helps the team and doesn't involve direct combat. I tend to play engie rather than medic, but the principle is the same.

More utility stuff gives me more to do in between bouts of trying to shoot people and failing.

I suspect that's what Sledge means, although if I'm mis-interpreting him I'll apologise in advance.