The much needed changes for TR LMG's

[Rolfski]

The most heard complaint about guns in this game is that they look & feel too similar but also perform too similar. To change that, a lot can already be gained with relatively little effort in the balance/statistics or performance department.
The class to start with is TR LMG's because they suffer from this the most imo. They should be very good in a specific role while sucking at another.
This is unfortunately not the case with TR LMG's atm:

• T9 Carv lacks too much at distance to be a good all-round starter weapon
• MSW-R is too all-round for a CQB weapon
• T9 Carv S lacks customizability and underperforms at range for its intended role.
• TMG-50 is too strong short-mid range while lacking at long range
• T32 Bull doesn't know what it wants to be, it's too similar to T16.
• T16 doesn't make sense, combining big magazines with mid-long range capabilities.

Below are some ideas for TR LMG performance changes. Warning: other factions LMG's need changes as well to balance this out (VS Ursa would be UP vs new TMG-50), but TR LMG seems to be the weapon class that needs most fixing:

• T9 Carv: Great allround dakka gun with limited attachments.
  Slight buff to 0,2 horizontal recoil to make it more viable beyond 40m at the cost of bullet speed (600 => 580: Not sure tbh, maybe this gun needs a straight buff).
  
• T9 Carv S: Jack of all trades, master of none gun with amazing flexibility in load-outs.
  Give it access to advanced fwd grip/advanced laser sight to pronounce it's flexible role and a slight buff to 0,4 vertical recoil to allow for better burst fire over ranges, at the cost of reload speed. This should make it a better and more flexible all-rounder to the T9-Carv at the cost of dps.
  
• MSW-R: Dedicated CQB.
  Give it 0,75 ADS movement speed (great for short-mid range) at the cost of first shot recoil (2,5 => 3,0) that should hamper it's burst fire capabilities.
  
• TMG 50: Dedicated long range.
  COF from 0,6 to 0,5. Decrease vertical recoil from 0,45 to 0,3. Increase bullet speed to 640. At the cost of fire rate (577 => 550 RPM). This should make it a better long range LMG and inferior short range performer.
  
• T32 Bull: Dedicated mid range ADS.
  Give it access to advanced fwd grip, increase ammo pool to pre-nerf status (never made sense) and kill it's hipfire bonuses. This should make it a great gun for assaulting bigger bases but not good enough for CQB or long range.
  
• T16 Rhino: Sustained fire and high damage per magazine, close to mid range.
  Increase ROF to 698 RPM, decrease reload speed to 3,5/4,6 sec. Standard magazine 150 (extended 250). Give it a hipfire bonus. Increase vertical recoil to 0,35, horizontal to 0,22, first shot to 2,5. Decrease bullet speed to 600.
  This should make it a powerhouse to take out multiple enemies up till mid range, where the big magazines make sense, while not a make it powerful enough at longer ranges. Maybe take out the advanced fwd grip as well.

Btw all guns need access to 2x reflex. CQB to mid range guns need access to 1x reflex as well. And please, state very clear roles in the gun description mouse-over that should include recoil stats as well. People pay money for these guns and should be well-informed when buying them.

[ringring]

I've played with the Carv, The Carv-s and the Rhino.

The Carv-S was the only one I didn't like and to my eyes seemed like a downgrade to the Carv.

The Rhino suited me well and that's the gun I generally recommend if anyone asks me.

Having said all of that, I would need some persuading that a buff for any of these guns is needed. I'm not the best, far from it but I did ok with them.

[Rolfski]

Originally Posted by ringring

Having said all of that, I would need some persuading that a buff for any of these guns is needed.

I'm not proposing a general buff, I'm proposing a more pronounced role, which should go for other empires as well btw. NC and VS LMG class is a mess as well.

[Ghoest9]

Ive been using the MCG lately.


Who cares abut other LMGs when you have that beast?
90% of the time it probably the best gun in the whole game that anyone could hope to be holding.

[maradine]

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

90% of the time it probably the best gun in the whole game that anyone could hope to be holding.

There is a growing body of data pointing to this being utterly untrue. In fact, from where I'm sitting, I'd rather be using any other TR LMG, sans the default.

[Varsam]

Originally Posted by maradine

There is a growing body of data pointing to this being utterly untrue. In fact, from where I'm sitting, I'd rather be using any other TR LMG, sans the default.

I'd be interested in seeing said data.

[maradine]

Originally Posted by Varsam

I'd be interested in seeing said data.

It's not very far away.

http://www.planetside-universe.com/s...8&postcount=64

Your MCG numbers for the same timeframe, by comparison, are 58,158, 3449, and 16.86.

[Falcon_br]

The tr has only 2 lmg.
Tmg-50 for long range.
Msw-r for close range.

End of discussion, all the others are not worth to get it, 100 certs the msw-r and 500 the tmg-50.
I have all of then (not the m32 bull because it is pointless) and they just plain suck bad, I can get some kills with the rhino, but I still like the msw-r and the tmg-50 more.
The t9 carv since the nerf, you can't hit more then two bullets in the same target in the same burst unless you have a foregrip on it. It is just bad, real bad.
I made a Vanu on the test server, I really can't believe they have all that variety of lmg while we only got two real options. They even have a lmg with the same status as the msw-r, but with 0,75 move speed while ads! And it is not the best in the VS arsenal!

[Varsam]

Originally Posted by maradine

It's not very far away.

http://www.planetside-universe.com/s...8&postcount=64

Your MCG numbers for the same timeframe, by comparison, are 58,158, 3449, and 16.86.

Kpu is kills per unit I'm guessing?

[camycamera]

ima just gonna get the minigun

[maradine]

Originally Posted by Varsam

Kpu is kills per unit I'm guessing?

Kills per unique killer. Total observed carnage divided by observed ubiquity of weapon.

[fierce deity]

These would be good changes. Clearly defining the role of the weapons is a good thing since it prevents people for spending certs/SC on a weapon that doesn't really suit their playstyle. The same changes would have to be made for VS and NC of course.

[Varsam]

Originally Posted by maradine

Kills per unique killer. Total observed carnage divided by observed ubiquity of weapon.

In that case, be very careful with your interpretation of those numbers, as they can be misleading.

For instance, the Polaris is widely regarded as at best a mediocre weapon by most vets, yet it has the highest KPU rating. This is due to the fact that only a relatively few amount of people use it, but perform relatively well with it. You can see (to a lesser extent) the same issue with the Gauss Saw S, Carv S, and Bull, all considered mediocre weapons.

On the flip side, the Orion, TMG-50, MSW-R, SAW, and GD-22S are all widely considered effective weapons (and coincidentally -or not - also have some of the highest unique user counts), yet all fall at the bottom of the KPU list.

In both cases your analysis directly contradicts the sentiment of most Planetside 2 vets. So either the data you're pulling is missing a key factor (and I'm guessing here that simply dividing number of kills by number of users isn't really the most telling use of the data), or most people in this game have very skewed definitions of effectiveness when it comes to weapons. If I had to interpret this data, I'd probably say that the more popular weapons are simply diluted by less experienced players. In the context of the MCG (which, from your data, is one of the most-used weapons in the game), it might mean the same.

[maradine]

Maybe - who knows. I provide a healthy dose of personal uncertainty at various points. But I also know that the Law of Large Numbers is at work here, and I'm not tracking ownership - I'm tracking use. Make of it what you will.

Perhaps user sentiment knows something that the numerical facts do not. Or, perhaps you can't dyno a car from the driver's seat.

[Ghoest9]

I think Varsam is right.

The MCG is probably the most popular HA weapon with new players other than the starter gun.

I dont think you can can learn much of anything from those numbers concerning the MCG. You really arent learning much about any of the gun except how popular they are.

Originally Posted by maradine

Perhaps user sentiment knows something that the numerical facts do not. Or, perhaps you can't dyno a car from the driver's seat.

Dont you feel embarrassed for writing that? You do realize that your sample is pretty meaningless because its in no way normalized or controlled - its nothing like a dyno on a car.