head shots!!!

[cujoman39]

who says snipers dont win wars? They turned the tide in WW2 for the russians. Because they will have long reload times they will have to chose there targets carefully and i think snipers should be very deadly but very diffficult to use sucessfuly.

Snipers are not just going to attack a the first squad they see(unless they are defending a base) they are probably going to have to tail a squad waiting for the perfect oppertunity, chosing there target and escape route carefully because the light members of a squad can hunt down the sniper/s and lights will not be so easy to hit. In other words a sniper is going to take out a important member of a squad and run away staying around is suiside because a few light armors can take out a sniper with there slow reload times.

[�io]

Am i the only one who finds it's funny that Warborn said realism isn't important so headshots shouldn't be lethal but then says in real life snipers are support troops only?

Kinda contradicting yourself there aren't you? You want the snipers role to be realistic but not their weapon.




And since i'm once again posting in this debate(had to point out the above fact) i'm hoping that i can state what i think the sniper should be like and this time people will read it and stop assuming i want lethal headshots on a MAX from 500yards away.

Headshots: should be very hard to get on moving targets(like in RL) but lethal(again like in RL). If you stand still in the middle of a field for 5mins expect to die, i think it's logical.

Distance: it should not be too far. If the target cannot see the sniper at all it's too far, the sniper scope should only help aim on targets already visible with the naked eye but that are small not allow you to see others too far away. In other words once he is aware of the snipers presence (be it by seeing him or getting shot once) he can find him and pursue or flee.

Reload time: It's 1 shot/ loading so i'm guessing/hoping reload time is somewhat long.

Up close: in close combat(un-zoomed/not aiming) the sniper should be very inaccurate and less powerful.


As i said before the key thing about sniping is accuracy not power. What people should complain about is not the power of headshots but rather the diffculty of getting said shots.

[cujoman39]

I mean am i right or am I right?

[Doobz]

well, I for one am all for headshot kills as long is it doesnt apply to heavies or MAXs

it can often be incredibly hard to grab a headshot kill, especially if ur aiming at an important person in battle (that that a sniper would be in battle, would be suicidal, i mean his target )

[cujoman39]

I dont know about anyone else, but i don't want to be killed by a bolt drive to the foot, thats just no tcool.

so shots to the body should be less leath than shots to the head and arm & leg shots should do less damage than shots to the body!!!!!!!!!!!

[cujoman39]

ANYONE disagree? ( no junk about cheating please)

[cujoman39]

because on this scale what chance does a squad have of taking a facility if they cant quickly kill the enemy, so players with exceptional accuracy can take out a force several times greater than there own. Making elite players have something to stive for instead of hitting your peak when you can land your shots on the body of your enemy rather than his head!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Warborn]

who says snipers dont win wars? They turned the tide in WW2 for the russians.

Uh, no they didn't. You watched Enemy at the Gates one too many times. The Wehrmacht wasn't built for urban combat, and supplies were trickling in. The Germans had covered too much ground too quickly and weren't able to push forward. And then when Zhukov began pouring in the Russian soldiers, Paulus (the guy commanding the 6th Army, which was in Stalingrad) was denied the ability to retreat by Hitler. Honestly, Enemy at the Gates is misleading. All that you see are the snipers, so you think "Wow, the snipers won this". But how many people did Vasilli Zaitsev end up killing in Stalingrad? Maybe 100 or so during his entire time there. And there were several hundred thousand German soldiers in and around Stalingrad at the time. Still think he won the battle?

Kinda contradicting yourself there aren't you? You want the snipers role to be realistic but not their weapon.

I want the role to be true to its role in real-life. The weapon can't be true to real life, simply because it's not very fun to get shot once, limp away, and spend 10 minutes bleeding to death. That's how it works in real life, after all. Unless you want to make it a complete replica of real life, then no, it can't be all realistic.

Headshots: should be very hard to get on moving targets(like in RL) but lethal(again like in RL). If you stand still in the middle of a field for 5mins expect to die, i think it's logical.

A wonderful recipe for disaster. Let's see how long it takes for the skilled marksmen to make your "Well it's difficult to do, so that means it's balanced" justification worthless by plugging people in the head on a regular basis. Which is what will happen, and does happen in virtually every other sniper game out there.

As i said before the key thing about sniping is accuracy not power. What people should complain about is not the power of headshots but rather the diffculty of getting said shots.

Accuracy is relative to the person. What you might find difficult someone with a good deal of skill will find easy. You can't balance a game like this, otherwise once you run into the problem of really good marksmen using sniper rifles, the percieved balance you once had with sniper rifles is thrown out the window. Now you have a weapon that, in the hands of some people, can get instant-kills fairly easily. Or at least hit body shots nearly every time, killing most people before they can react.


Anyway... none of this matters. You're not designing the game, and neither am I, so I don't see any need to continue this.

[Zatrais]

Well, I can really only see snipers beeing usefull for taking a few shots at defenders near a base to keep them from firering to manny AV weaps while an assault force moves in whit an APC or a Galaxy. Or if they are defending they could be standing around on the hills or around the tree near a base to try to get off a few shots before the attackers move into the base or kill the enemy snipers..

Now if the assault should stagger then the attackers will be picked off by enemy snipers unless the attackers find cover but thats how it should be.

As for who should fear snipers... I'd say basic armor and Agile should be the "ideal" target for snipers since they won't have so much armor as the Reinforced. MAX's will probably to heavily armored to be a target.

I don't think snipers will be overly usefull because well i can't see people using other forms of transport than APC's or Galaxy's for when they want to take a base.. i won't mind hearing the clunk sound the sniper round will make on the armor of an ACP hehe.

Honnestly, how manny will want to run to a base when they can just get a cert for a vehicle and drive.... Sure you can kill the driver if they sit in a "open" vehicle but how easy will that be considering the speed of the vehicles

Snipers can and most likely will be an annoyance for when someone has just respawned outside a mobile base.... shooting people that just spawned whit a co sniper hehe.. course if you spawn whit armor and such this might not work to well

Just my $0.02

[Tobias]

*poke* *Poke* The fire is hot in here!

[Airlift]

The tide was turned for Russia because of the winter, the western front, and wave after wave of soldiers fighting to the death. Those battles were fought on such an enormous scale that individual snipers would have little or no overall effect. Both sides were already demoralized by a long war that wasn't easy for anyone and by the time the snows hit nobody was going anywhere.

[�io]

Originally posted by Warborn
I want the role to be true to its role in real-life. The weapon can't be true to real life, simply because it's not very fun to get shot once, limp away, and spend 10 minutes bleeding to death. That's how it works in real life, after all. Unless you want to make it a complete replica of real life, then no, it can't be all realistic.

So by your own words you want the sniper to be what you think is good, realism doesn't mean squat, how is this different from the guys who want the sniper to kill a MAX in 1 headshot? (And NO i'm not saying i want this, far from it)

Originally posted by Warborn
A wonderful recipe for disaster. Let's see how long it takes for the skilled marksmen to make your "Well it's difficult to do, so that means it's balanced" justification worthless by plugging people in the head on a regular basis. Which is what will happen, and does happen in virtually every other sniper game out there.

Accuracy is relative to the person. What you might find difficult someone with a good deal of skill will find easy. You can't balance a game like this, otherwise once you run into the problem of really good marksmen using sniper rifles, the percieved balance you once had with sniper rifles is thrown out the window. Now you have a weapon that, in the hands of some people, can get instant-kills fairly easily. Or at least hit body shots nearly every time, killing most people before they can react.

OK wait you're saying if a skilled player can kill you with the sniper it's too powerful?

.....Ummm...ok.....right.....


Ok guys no more MAX, skilled players can own the field with those, oh and no more tanks or reavers or mosquitos, skilled pilots would own the airs and maybe even the ground, come on that's way too powerful. Oh no anti-vehicle weapons either, a skilled squad could own a MAX, that would suck. Oh no stealth suits with knives, a skilled guy could kill you before you even know he's there. Oh and ...etc,etc,etc

[Hamma]

This thread is too long. Also so much controvery over snipers

[Unregistered]

Didn't we already have a long sniper thread, or is this the same one?

[Airlift]

... this is the thread debating the WW2 Eastern Front and how it would have been different had either side completed work on their MAX suits and Galaxies.