Well it looks like VS and NC have switched - Page 4

kidriot · 2003-07-21, 04:39 PM

I can regularly kill Lasher users. for the majority, they use their noobspammer incorrectly. however, it's taking more and more luck to survive encounters with multiple lasher users.

you have to fight them almost like you do a max. constant speed strafing with surge to get the upper hand. whereas before, I popped off 3 shots w/out much movement, then moved to the next Vanu.

also, abusing the way stairs work helps a lot in tower battles.

all in all it is an extreme challenge to survive Lasher encounters.

Queensidecastle · 2003-07-21, 05:03 PM

The fact that you have no idea about the Prowler exactly illustrates my point perfectly. I guess since the vast majority of players dont have a clue about the Prowler works towards it not getting nerfed.

100mm gun with fast fire rate. >DPS than Vanguard
More maneuverable then the Vanguard. Faster turning capabilities, narrower turning radius, more traction on terrain, better breaks. Add to that, the chaingun operated by a seperate gunner that can cut down infantry, aircraft, and maxs very efficiently, that can be focused at the main gun target as necessary and its really no contest. 3 heads are better than 2. The Prowler takes more to be good than the other tanks, but when you get a good crew, its just not a contest.

The popular misconception is that the Magrider is the best tank due to strafe, when actually it is forced to strafe to use its driver gun. When you run your tank between 45 and 80 degrees of a magrider they just cant hit you and they are out 1 gun while you are wailing on them with 2 prowler guns at once. This maneuver also keeps Vanguards from closing the gap and getting beneath your firing arc

So yeah, just ignor me and uhh, there is nothing to see here, please move along

Nixon · 2003-07-21, 05:10 PM

As an exclusive TR player, it seems like more of us are running from encounters with the Vanu and making our max exodus to NC continents. Though the lasher needed an upgrade, I think they took it a bit too far... it could have easily been a big improvement if JUST the ROF or JUST the damage per shot was increased.

As it is, I'm hoping this will be just a week-long event with everyone trying the damn thing out. Maybe its the fact that half the Vanu I meet are using this weapon is the cause of my absolutely hating it. Funny how it makes the Jackhammer seem more friendly.

One thing I'm tired of is that HA weapons are slowly moving up and up, making them "must have" weapons for the majority of players in that empire. Most people hate the TR Striker, but what they don't realize is half the time somebody is just pointing it at you to scare you off... only firing when they see you linger in your firing position on our AMS. The Jackhammer... it has become more acceptable, though many TR wish that it at least had a little less range.

Heavy Assault only needs nerfing in the aspect that its one blade that can be used to slice anything, be it infantry, MAXs, or vehicles. Strategy is when you need that butter knife to tackle the butter, and that steak knife to go on that red meat... it shouldn't be seeing how many guys you can get in HA to mow down a path of infantry and armor to get through some place.

As it stands, it almost makes me want to pick up a sniper rifle and stay away from the action. I'm confident it'll cool off after the first week, though. Remember the Skyguard and Liberator? Everyone was driving one for the first week it came out before they found it had weaknesses or that you needed a measure of skill to use it effectively. My only fear is that maybe the Lasher doesn't require much skill to point and kill... then again, the same could be said about the Striker, because a tree will also make you miss your target with any weapon.

Nixon · 2003-07-21, 05:13 PM

And for the non-TR, the Marauder did get a nerf despite the increase in armor. The turning rate, which used to be much like a Harasser, is suddenly much wider and cumbersome, leaving many veteran drivers heading into trees and rocks.

The bright side is that its rumored to be a by product of the changes in the physics, and might get fixed with a later patch.

Madcow · 2003-07-21, 05:19 PM

Originally posted by Queensidecastle
The fact that you have no idea about the Prowler exactly illustrates my point perfectly. I guess since the vast majority of players dont have a clue about the Prowler works towards it not getting nerfed.

First of all, you are only comparing them on a tank vs. tank basis. Even then not all of your facts are complete. The chaingun is minimally effective (and is often difficult to find gunners for) but not horrible. The cannons aren't bad, but the reticule change from cannon to cannon is enough to keep the tank from being as effective as it should be. As you fire the cannons the reticule jumps slightly left and right for each cannon, keeping direct hits from a distance at a minimum.
The Magrider has the distinct advantage of being slowed down by very little terrain which is why it becomes a terror against infantry and MAXes stuck in the field. If I'm going tank on tank, the Magrider is probably not the tank I'd want to be manning. In 75% of battlefield situations however, it is. The strafing ability and the ability to go over so many objects make it the mower we all know and love.
The Vanguard with a decent gunner will pummel most things in the game. If the Vanguard knows you are there, good luck getting close enough to be able to correct for the Prowler's reticule changes for direct hits. Vanguards shelling towers are incredibly effective as well, although only slightly more effective than the Prowler in that regard.
I appreciate your assumption that I know nothing about the Prowler, other than having the cert and jacking the other tanks and playing them all I guess there's not much more I know about them. Having an invaluable resource such as yourself to point me in the right direction can only help me though.

Queensidecastle · 2003-07-21, 05:27 PM

Your assumption that I was alone in my opinion about the Prowler was also incorrect, but hey, you started the debate with false assumptions so it seemed you needed some education.

Now, the Prowler isnt as effective against infantry and MAXs as the Magrider and you certaintly cant be effective with it if its just the driver, but the Magmower blah blah blah bandwaggon gets really old and really annoying, especially when its not even close to the best tank. Having used all tanks extensivly, I actually rate it last. In short, the lawnmower argument is just overdone and played out and I just get sick of bandwagoneers. I run over scores of people with my Prowler. Scores. Also, I never have problems getting run over by magriders, ever. So I can only view it as players not paying attention to thier surroundings. If I am driving a tank (dont matter which one) and I can run over you, I am going to do it. I want my gunners on the enemy vehicles.

Eliaas_Demens · 2003-07-21, 05:32 PM

And for the non-TR, the Marauder did get a nerf despite the increase in armor. The turning rate, which used to be much like a Harasser, is suddenly much wider and cumbersome, leaving many veteran drivers heading into trees and rocks.

I believe this is due to the new physics engine.

ONiel · 2003-07-21, 05:36 PM

Hey everyone, how's it going? = )

I don't see anything wrong with spending a day playing VS or TR to see how the weapons work. Besides, aren't you doing yourself a favor by "knowing your enemy"? Give it a week or so, I'm predicting things will go back to a somewhat normal condition again.

I'm glad the TR's mini-chain gun got improved. I liked how it was more effective at range. I had fun running around with it, and it should be fun facing the TR who use it.

The VS lasher however... dear lord. It only took 4 shots to kill reinf infantry before with it, and still does, but those rounds come out faster than a jackhammer can spit out 3 shots. I used surge and this, and mowed down everything in my path. It can shoot it's rounds at much farther range than the JH as well, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it also hits with 'near miss' or 'lash' damage. As it sits, I think they made it a bit over powered. I'd like to see it's rate of fire more than it was pre-patch, but just a bit slower than it is now. I agree, let's give the Vanu some improvements to some of their weapons, but right now the lasher has way too many benefits compared to either the JH or MCG. Grats to the Vanu on the game's new "noob-weapon", for lack of a better phrase.

Which brings me to something that annoys me once in a while. I've heard a lot of people say "now the NC know what it feels like" and other "noobhammer" statements made by people who IMO probably don't play NC on a regular basis, or use the Jackhammer regularly. I think those statements are now, and always have been, a lot of bullshit. I'll remind you a Jackhammer has shit for range. From this patch forward, if you're constantly being killed by a Jackhammer wielding NC while playing the other factions with superior ranged weapons, then I'll agree with you on your calling the Jackhammer a Noobhammer... cause that's all it's going to be killing, is noobs (and a few people who got snuck up on). And if you're bitching about it being too powerful in CC's and towers, STFU. The Pounder MAX and Lashers are equally useful in these situations.

Ok, just my 2 cents. Have good one.

Madcow · 2003-07-21, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by Queensidecastle
Your assumption that I was alone in my opinion about the Prowler was also incorrect, but hey, you started the debate with false assumptions so it seemed you needed some education.

No, my exaggeration (slight) about your flawed opinion on the Prowler rubbed you the wrong way and you decided to make blanket assumptions and silly statements because it was easier than a well reasoned argument. My education is doing just fine, but I'm sure it's all the better with your input.
I've run over people in the Prowler as well, and the Vanguard. It's really not that tough to do. It isn't as easy as it is in the Magrider, however. That's not jumping on a bandwagon, that's a fact. A Magrider can go over some rocks and the hulks of destroyed vehicles and barely slow down, the other tanks will often get hung up on these things. The Magrider can use the strafe and actually increase it's speed on the diagonal to help squash people who try to surge to the side at the last second. The Magrider is the most effective tank in open field situations with lots of infantry around, it's just more maneuverable.
It's easy to get a gunner for a tank. It's often harder to get 2 gunners even in a decent squad, especially when the chaingun gets very little effective play. Anybody jumping in the Prowler alone is just asking to get destroyed, but the same can be said for the Vanguard. The Magrider can still be very effective with a single driver.
I'm sorry that your extensive testing and 'scores' of squished people didn't bring you to the same conclusion that I've come to, and that 'scores' of other people have come to. It's not jumping on a bandwagon just because other people say something. That's ignorant. Sometimes other people are actually intelligent enough to find their own evidence and come to their own conclusions, and sometimes you just need to realize that maybe they're on to something.
The only statement I made was that you weren't afraid to stand alone on an opinion, too bad your sense of humor seemed to drop off long before your strong opinions did.

Queensidecastle · 2003-07-21, 05:49 PM

I guess we wont agree then. Enjoy your self limiting "alternate" reality, good day

Madcow · 2003-07-21, 05:52 PM

Originally posted by ONiel
Which brings me to something that annoys me once in a while. I've heard a lot of people say "now the NC know what it feels like" and other "noobhammer" statements made by people who IMO probably don't play NC on a regular basis, or use the Jackhammer regularly. I think those statements are now, and always have been, a lot of bullshit.

From what I saw there were an awful lot of VS and TR who had lockers stockpiled with Jackhammers who were saying such things. I know I ran around with it for a while before I posted about it. People have also complained about the Reaver and the Magrider plenty, I tried both of those and realized that there was significantly more skill involved in each than I'd given it credit for. There's a lot less skill in surging forward with the Jackhammer, I tried it with my TR and even created an NC Jackhammer monkey on Markov for a couple of days to better try things out.
People complain about a lot of things, most of them seem to die down. Where there's smoke there's fire a lot of times, and if the complaints don't die down I think that there's a distinct possibility that often times the complainers have a point. You still see the occasional complaint about the Magrider or the Reaver, or the Striker, but you don't see the constant threads on any of them like you did with the Jackhammer. Now we're seeing lots of threads about the Lasher. I'm curious to see how many people are still passionate about the Lasher in 3 weeks.

Madcow · 2003-07-21, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by Queensidecastle
I guess we wont agree then. Enjoy your self limiting "alternate" reality, good day

It works better to have the smug air of superiority after you've pwned somebody.

Queensidecastle · 2003-07-21, 05:55 PM

ROFL

What it means is you are now dismissed from this thread. If you have anything constrctive to say, please continue, otherwise, I am just not interested

Madcow · 2003-07-21, 06:01 PM

Originally posted by Queensidecastle
ROFL

What it means is you are now dismissed from this thread. If you have anything constrctive to say, please continue, otherwise, I am just not interested

I know what you meant. You meant to have a smug air of superiority, just like the idea that you could possibly 'dismiss' me. I've said many constructive things, the fact that you can't actually see that surprises me not a bit.
My favorite part is when you repeated scores of people. That was good stuff.

ONiel · 2003-07-21, 06:04 PM

From what I saw there were an awful lot of VS and TR who had lockers stockpiled with Jackhammers who were saying such things. I know I ran around with it for a while before I posted about it. People have also complained about the Reaver and the Magrider plenty, I tried both of those and realized that there was significantly more skill involved in each than I'd given it credit for. There's a lot less skill in surging forward with the Jackhammer, I tried it with my TR and even created an NC Jackhammer monkey on Markov for a couple of days to better try things out.

I won't begrudge the people who've voiced an informed opinion. I do however get quite sick of the "I pwn joo, I'z l33t, newbhammer fookers suck" posts.

People complain about a lot of things, most of them seem to die down. Where there's smoke there's fire a lot of times, and if the complaints don't die down I think that there's a distinct possibility that often times the complainers have a point. You still see the occasional complaint about the Magrider or the Reaver, or the Striker, but you don't see the constant threads on any of them like you did with the Jackhammer. Now we're seeing lots of threads about the Lasher. I'm curious to see how many people are still passionate about the Lasher in 3 weeks.

It's refreshing to have a well voiced rebuttal and point of view. Thank you.