New System Explained - Page 4

PrivateMonkey · 2003-07-23, 10:39 AM

Everyone can whine their asses off, but this idea isn't all that bad. It is simple, something that 99.9% of other ideas that try to bring action outside aren't.

However, there is one basic flaw here, and I'm almost thinking Spork got the system wrong from the devs. You see, once the attackers reach the core of a base, usually the defenders have all but disappeared. By the time they hack the base, there aren't any defenders around. More importantly, the attackers have probably already taken all the surrounding towers. So what exactly is going to be the challenge in taking the LLU back to your own base? That is to say, why would the enemy be behind your own lines? If you have already reached any enemy base, you have probably taken all the towers on the way. So why would the enemy be there to ambush you? Something in the gameplay logic there is wrong. Why on earth would the enemy set up ambushes near your base? How would they even get troops there? This doesn't make sense.

What does make sense here is having there be some unit or something that you have to take between the bases. This is a good idea, and one that I believe will take the action outside. So here is how it should work:

Instead of having the LLU show up once you hack a base, have the LLU be at your own base on the front lines. In other words, each base you control has an LLU that only your own team can control. Here is what you have to do. You have to take your own LLU to the enemy base. Once you bring it to the enemy CC, you control that base. The same rules apply to the LLU as spork mentioned. However, to dissuade the griefers, there need to be some restrictions. There are two ways about this. Either have it so that anyone can spawn an LLU, or have it so that the LLU must be in a certain proximity of an enemy base to not despawn. I think the battles would be more exciting with only one LLU, but there needs to be a good way to ensure there isn't griefing (taking the LLU to random places).

Madcow · 2003-07-23, 10:47 AM

A couple of random thoughts.

I personally like the LLU being placed randomly in the base. You get a general idea where it is, but that bit of randomness can keep things a little bit fresh. Otherwise a squad sends an infil hacker in hoping he gets the hack and the rest of them stand around in the room the LLU will spawn so that they can be off and running the instant it shows up.

I'm not sure base defense will be so impossible, but maybe I'm reading it wrong. It sounds to me like the base attackers (who have obviously overwhelmed the defending force and gotten the hack) then have to split their forces in two. There is the group defending the base and there is the group escorting the LLU. The defenders on the other hand can organize and concentrate on just one of those two. Do they want to try and re-hack the base before the LLU can arrive at it's destination, or do they want to stop the LLU altogether and try to defend it? My main concern there is it sounds like the majority of the battles will still involve the bases. If I'm a defender I'd much rather try to make it to the CC to hack it instead of chasing the damn football around only to have to stand there like an idiot hoping somebody else hacks the base back.

teratravp · 2003-07-23, 11:45 AM

personally, this sounds like something that will take any hint of realism and the fighting a war feel and make PS way too well... unreal tournament/quake like. This is the wrong direction from what I was hoping for, maybe some of you wanted this though.

Searo · 2003-07-23, 11:49 AM

No one read my post it all...

Instead we're discussing where a thing called a LULU should be placed, and why it's a retarded or good idea to cart this LULU around in the middle of friendly territory.

I'm frustrated.

Jounar · 2003-07-23, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by teratravp
personally, this sounds like something that will take any hint of realism and the fighting a war feel and make PS way too well... unreal tournament/quake like. This is the wrong direction from what I was hoping for, maybe some of you wanted this though.

I so agree. PS is just far to new a game to have to be dragging in old ideas like this. PS is turing in the usual online fps where you dont have access to all the toys of distruction right from the start and you have to pay a monthly subscription to boot.

FireWolf22 · 2003-07-23, 12:03 PM

I do like some of this CTF. I thought that it may bring some of the Battle out into the Fields. I do have some problems with it. This game is suppose to promote tactics. Well then, Tactics are up the the creator. No tactic is a sure thing. A tactic will work until you throw it against an enemy. We use to say something in the Army, See you Objective, plan to over take it, adapter to changes, and excel. I don't like the Idea of you limiting the Things I can do with this LLU. It is my choice to choose tactilly how I can overcome an obstical, so don't tie my hands. I do see where okay they shouldn't be able to cloak and drive. But that shouldn't stop me from loading a harraser up into a gal and taking off. Like a reavor or two can't catch a gal and kill it. Come on.

Also the Locked Cont thing. How do you take a locked cont? I know it has been asked before, I have asked it in another Thread.

I don't think this will stop the zerg. I do think that it will cause a empires defenders to be split into three different locations at one time, good thing. But you will have to zerg in all three locations in hopes of completing the hack. You have to have enough personnel to hold the hacked base, hold the returning base, and cover the rabbit.

Also communications, have said this in another thread. How in the hell will you be able to Communicate all the actions of a zerg, when no squads can communicate with other ones. Okay you use Outfit, but you can't talk between outfits. So you have like 3 or 4 different outfits working to take one base. It will be the biggest Soup sandwich around. I know chaos can be fun, but I like organization. The entire reasoning behind having a military, which is the basis for this game, is organization.

Okay say you have 3 or 4 outfits working to take one base. Who in the hell is covering the other bases. That is the main reason for empires walking through entire cont unopposed and slow game play. Last night, Konried nc, my squad walked through 2 cont completly. One was even a 1 jump from tr sanc. We killed like 5 tr, and maybe 40 Vs. ON the other Conts the Tr and VS were fighting each other. There is a Vast area out there and not enough people to cover any of it. It took us three hours to completly take over both conts.

Oh well I don't think this CTF thing is going to play out that well as is. They really need to rethink this idea, or let some gamers play around with it. All I can say at the moment

Wolf

IDgaf · 2003-07-23, 12:15 PM

Private,

That's an interesting idea. Your way means there would be a frontline - the troops pushing to the base and the guys in the base pushing outwards, trying to stop the LLU getting there in the first place.

Presumably there'd always be people on defence in the base itself, since the LLU 'force' would be escorting the unit AND trying to push into the base before the unit got there, clearing out troops.

(If I understand it the base wouldn't be able to be hacked, so the defenders would have the advantage here - always being able to spawn and get armour.)

If one could have multiple LLUS - or decoys - that would mean defence on different fronts.

What hasn't been addressed by Spork is the speed of action in the game re: moving the LLU. I think the idea of slowing it down is to create natural convoys and to allow defenders to set up choke points effectively.

This feels to me like a game (i.e. soccer/rugby) than a war. If this could be an aspect of the game rather than the entireity of it, I think people would be less concerned.

Cease · 2003-07-23, 12:34 PM

Well I have had a night to sleep on it... taking a morning shower on it... take my morning drive to work on it... and I still don't like it.

Will I give it a chance? Sure, but like many have voiced here, this takes a 'war/struggle' feel away from the game and makes it feel more like a Rugby with guns.

AcidCat · 2003-07-23, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by Cease
Well I have had a night to sleep on it... taking a morning this takes a 'war/struggle' feel away from the game and makes it feel more like a Rugby with guns.

I have to agree, personally I have never liked CTF because it has always felt too arbitrary to me ... like who gives a sh!t about some stupid flag? It has always felt like some schoolyard sport in games where I wanted to focus on killing. That kind of game dynamic is certainly not something I want in PlanetSide.

Mold · 2003-07-23, 01:36 PM

come on....its the same damn game. The only thing this will do is provide another challenge to capturing a base. Its about the same deal as an ant, and noone hardly escorts or ambushes them. Your still going to try and resecure the hack the old fashion way, at the base CC. Like someone else said....you will be in a relatively safe area behind your lines and will prolly only need the rabit and his harrasser driver. It will prolly be a boring job that noone will realy care to do. The extra exp would be no more then an ant( if any), and not worth the hassle to TK. (im not saying that some idiots wont still do it though)

Just give it a shot before you put it down. Then again...It may suck hamma nuts for all i know....we will see!

Madcow · 2003-07-23, 02:15 PM

Originally posted by Mold
Like someone else said....you will be in a relatively safe area behind your lines and will prolly only need the rabit and his harrasser driver. It will prolly be a boring job that noone will realy care to do. The extra exp would be no more then an ant( if any), and not worth the hassle to TK. (im not saying that some idiots wont still do it though)

I don't see that happening, if they put a distinct mark on the HUD then every Mossy and Reaver pilot anywhere close to the base will be all over stopping that delivery. If ANTs had a distinct HUD signature they'd probably never make it to a base.

Endless · 2003-07-23, 02:27 PM

Not quite sure on my opiion yet, I'll definately have to see what it's like when they test it. Although I think there are other ways to promote getting out of the soi's and defending, such as capturable bridges, the old xp system, and rewards for defending.

ajohn505 · 2003-07-23, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by ccarlin8
The only problem I see is some guy grabbing it and being a real dick about delivering it. It would be the ultimate grief, even more so than TKing. And there's no way they can guarantee a competent player will get the box, and if they say there is, they're liars. Personally, I think it's a decent idea, but the fact that one guy can ruin a 5k base cap for everyone should kill that idea where it stands.

UP THE XP ON KILLS IN SQUADS!!!!

This could be worse than the idiots blowing the generator after the hack has begun and the base is secure.

Though I am looking forward to finally being able to use my uber basilisk skillz.

X-113 · 2003-07-23, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by ajohn505
Though I am looking forward to finally being able to use my uber basilisk skillz.

You can't drive vehicles with an LLU.

Not that it matters to me anyway, since my subscription's going down the toilet the second this goes live.

SweetTater · 2003-07-23, 05:54 PM

If the defending empire kills the LLU, they are supposed to guard the LLU out in the open with no support until it deconstructs. Personally I think a better idea would be to force the LLU to deconstruct if it's successfully hacked. That way, the defenders would have to protect a hacker for a small amount of time. Since the LLU is out in the open, it will be easier to kill the hacker than it would be in a CC. But I think it would give the defneders a better chance to stop the hack than just stand around the LLU until you're overrun.