1984/America - Page 3

Incompetent · 2003-01-13, 04:57 PM

Why do you think its ok to give the poor black guy a chance and throw the poor white guy out on his ass. They should never, ever allow color into it. I wouldn't have a problem with them reserving a spot for a person in a certain tax bracket but as soon as they say it is only for a black person in the same position it becomes wrong, imho of course.

mistled · 2003-01-13, 04:57 PM

And let's not confuse the idea of vouchers for primary and high schools with AA in colleges. Simply because of the different premise behind college (that academics do play a role, wherein they do not in what high school you attend), the comparision should not be made.

Lexington_Steele · 2003-01-13, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by Incompetent
Why do you think its ok to give the poor black guy a chance and throw the poor white guy out on his ass. They should never, ever allow color into it. I wouldn't have a problem with them reserving a spot for a person in a certain tax bracket but as soon as they say it is only for a black person in the same position it becomes wrong, imho of course.

The thing is that the white guy is less likely to be poor percentage wise. Yes it should be judged on a case to case individual level, but the country is just too big to be able to do something like that. So you implement a policy that is based on trends and percentages and you adjust that policy as the tredns andpercentages change.

When social equality is achieved, there is no longer any need for any kind of racial based assistance.

Lexington_Steele · 2003-01-13, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by {BOHICA}mistled
And let's not confuse the idea of vouchers for primary and high schools with AA in colleges. Simply because of the different premise behind college (that academics do play a role, wherein they do not in what high school you attend), the comparision should not be made.

Private schools are competative. Acedemics do come into play.

mistled · 2003-01-13, 05:23 PM

If the kids are started with vouchers when they are young, grades will not be a deciding factor. Then, when they reach higher grades, they will have the education to be able to compete academically with anyone.

MrVicchio · 2003-01-13, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by Lexington_Steele
Private schools are competative. Acedemics do come into play.

Not the ones that get vouchers.. thats one of the requirements.

Incompetent · 2003-01-13, 05:52 PM

The thing is that the white guy is less likely to be poor percentage wise

So, you are going to screw a guy out of a college scholarship that he worked his ass of to get because there are less poor people who look like him?

Lexington_Steele · 2003-01-13, 07:21 PM

Mr Viccho, I think i see where you are coming from with the vouchers. You would prefer a system based purely on economic status. I hear that, but that does not address the issue of social inequality between the races which is what these types of scholarships are supposed to address.

Now you might reply that: the races that are worse off will recieve these benfits more frequently than the ones that are doing better.

Then I reply: well if it is social inequality between the races that we are trying to correct, why would we take race out of the equasion. Remember that affirmative action's purpose is address social inequality between the races, not the classes. Take race out of the equasion(like replacing scholarships for minorities with vouchers for the poor), then you are taking a round about way of solving a racial issue.

MrVicchio · 2003-01-13, 07:47 PM

Question:

Why is there inequality between the races?

Why should the GOVERNMENT take any action?

Would not superior schooling be the best long term answer to any inequality?

Would it not offend YOU if you were XX minority, and were told you CANNOT succeed without someone elses help?

Incompetent · 2003-01-13, 08:28 PM

Equality between races means that race is never considered in anything, not that there is a specific % of each race of people at every economic level. Trying to balance out the races the way you suggest is state sanctioned racism.

RandoM · 2003-01-13, 08:34 PM

*RandoM wonders where all the black members are*

Navaron · 2003-01-13, 09:27 PM

I changed my Fafsa today, I'm already in and got some grants because I'm frikkin poor and becaue I bust my ass and learn shit wherever I go. I changed my fafsa so that I am now an "African American". I applied for all 14 black scholarships, and if I don't get accepted bc they find out I'm white, I will call the ACLU, and channel seven faster than you can say "Bigot policies". I used to mark other, and put Scottish American, but I never got anywhere with that. Hey, I'm as Scottish as these guys are African.

Lexington_Steele · 2003-01-13, 09:54 PM

Originally posted by MrVicchio
Question:

Why is there inequality between the races?

Why should the GOVERNMENT take any action?

Would not superior schooling be the best long term answer to any inequality?

Would it not offend YOU if you were XX minority, and were told you CANNOT succeed without someone elses help?

Like I said in my first post regarding this subject, I understand the survival of the fittest approach when looking at this matter, I just think it is a bit too cut throat for my tastes.

*Why is there inequality between the races? Because of decades of descrimination following decades of slavery.

*Why should the government take action? That is a tougher one and has two elements:

1)There is the realword element where I feel that the government should take a role in fighting social injustice. There are many people that feel the same way I do.

2)There is the political aspect of why the government should take action. Plain and simple supporting affirmative action gets minority votes. Votes get you elected. Hence government officials will continue to support affirmative action to keep themselves in office.

*Yes, I thing that more funding for schools would be a good thing. Cutting education to give tax cuts for the rich is not. The thing is just because you improve education does not mean the problem is instantly solved. When the socail inequality is gone, so will the affirmative action.

*It is the reality that minorities do worse economically that is so offensive. I see affirmative action as something that gives someone hope that they can more easily pull themselves up by their boot straps (that their efforts will more likely find success).

If I offered you an easier way to economic success, would you really find it offensive? If I told you that I could get you a 6 figure job at my fathers company would you realy be offended? I am sure my father could find more qualified people than you for this undisclosed line of work. Does this offer mean I am calling you incapable of finding a six figure salary?

MrVicchio · 2003-01-13, 10:13 PM

Hmm...

Okay, The slavery thing, give it a rest. That one is dead and buried by how many generations now? The average black in america has a QOL higher then blacks in ANY other country.. period.

As for the education thing.. again, you busted out that tax cut for the rich thing.. do you understand how taxes work?

More money isn't the onyl answer. We need to revert education back about 50 years. Hard work = Sucess, not Feel good about yourself "its okay Johnny that you thought 4 + 5 = 20, as long as you feel GOOD about yourself you get an A" That would go a LONG way towards solving problems.

As for your employment issue... heres my Question in rebuttle.. why would you NOT hire the best qualifed person? Hmm?

mistled · 2003-01-13, 10:25 PM

If I offered you an easier way to economic success, would you really find it offensive? If I told you that I could get you a 6 figure job at my fathers company would you realy be offended? I am sure my father could find more qualified people than you for this undisclosed line of work. Does this offer mean I am calling you incapable of finding a six figure salary?

If we were friends and you got me in, then no, I wouldn't have a problem with it. It's called favortism. It's not fair, but it's life.

But... if you told me that you were only doing because of my skin color and for no other reason, then I would tell you to shove the job up your ass and go pity someone else. You see, if the only reason you give me a job is because of my skin color, then you must have some predetermined idea about people of my race. You must think we all need your help or you would just be looking for someone to help regardless of race. It's the idea that you know nothing about me except my race and yet you would have the nerve to assume that I must need your help. For all you know, the person you offer that job too is someone who doesn't need it. But you would never know that, because all AA cares about is the color of a person's skin.

Where's Martin Luther King when you need him??

mistled