Update on Surge Changes - Page 3

Diddy Mao · 2004-03-17, 10:32 PM

I run Planetside on a Atari 2600 And that Other Paddle is Surge'n to the Ball and I always loose it's always warp'n. And Besides most of you that are bitter about Surge call'n it a exploit are just victims by it. Sure I see the Warping go on but it's Due to the Bunny Hopp'n not the Surge it'self. Out of the whole time I've played planetside i've amassed a good 13k kills (respectable) but I've only been accused of Hack'n twice "today" by a vs I killed @ cetan while hew as snipe'n and I bailed on the roof, and raindog666 (He accuses every1). Even if your surge you still need to have good enough reaction time to fire and dodge. Most Surgiles aren't n00bs, but i do pitty you all if you atleast haven't tried it "once"

Vick · 2004-03-17, 11:13 PM

I give up, I have no point.

I just think it is stupid some people cannot deal with a simple problem like surge. I liked using it the way it was, its fun, and effective. Without surgile everything seems so "newb friendly", we have loser-players calling SGswift and Arakiel newbs because they warp. Like they would not pwn you anyway. It is just dumb and it sucks. My computer specs, choice of weapon, and empire have nothing to do with it. Some people can compete, others cant, because they are not as good, so they whine and degrade the game. It happens everywhere.

Eldanesh · 2004-03-17, 11:34 PM

Originally Posted by Krinsath

1) You use a Gauss, as you've proclaimed loudly many times, the rifle with the highest TTK in CQB. How successful are you with a Cycler, with the worst TTK at close range?

2) You're NC, and forgive my ignorance if you play other empires as I've seen no information to indicate you do, which means you rarely face a JH at point-blank. The Lasher and MCG, while nasty at point-blank, are not nearly as lethal as a JH.

Cycler- Do not remember exact numbers however let's assume it does have worst ttk at close range, (I still remain of the opinion that all the MA are very well-balanced vs each other) slightly slower ttk does make a huge difference up close, however inaccuracy is also another factor, the ability do deal with a few missed shots is just as important as killing quickly. This is is why I pay 4 certs for a JH; it can take a few misses without getting me killed. Bloom for all MA gets huge after the first burst, cycler has a slightly longer burst, however in extended use up close I have found it�s nicer to have extra clip size and better medium range ability than a slightly lower ttk. (also not to be picky about English, but its better to have a lower ttk than a high one, like golf

) In any case, I would say it's Vick's ability that allows success near-point-blank, cycler/gauss or otherwise.

All HA hurts just as bad and is just as lethal as a JH up close if the recipient is not prepared for what is coming. I have played TR + VS to the mid-br's and dealing with the JH is just like dealing with any other HA if not easier. Head-to-head HA's are very equal across the board point blank and JH has a much steeper drop-off for practical (ie, non-base/tower) use. MCG does very well against MA at mid-ranges, while JH has to cross distance and take cover to get that same effect.

Remember, one miss with the JH point-blank is way worse than a few misses with a MCG, if anything I prefer MCG for surgile in towers simply because it is easier to hold down the trigger with no worries until they are dead. All HA is lethal >5m its all in how well you can keep that shot lined up and in the case of the JH, time your twitches.

Originally Posted by Krinsath

4) The two people you reference are some of the worst warpers in the game. Whatever the reason is (lag, laptop, etc.), they can warp simply by WALKING up steps. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that they have a CSR who shadows them at all times looking for proof of wrongdoing. They still play so I'm guessing they haven't seen anything yet, which is why I generally don't complain about them. But to bring them up as proof that surgile is a valid tactic? That's pushing it.

5) Skilled players will remain skilled players, no matter what happens. If taking away Surge makes them no longer effective, then that is more or less proof that they are not skilled at PS, but skilled at abusing exploits...which really isn't a skill at all.

I have never seen them warping any more than any other person normally does, even today when I was in a tower with swift, I took care to watch exactly what he did, nothing different from what I or any other good surgile I have ever seen does, However he has great timing and can line up JH shots with the firing rhythm better than most.

I generally don't complain about them.

Yes, I did see that, I wanted to make note that they really just seem like normal guys, but just better at what they do.

Planetside really feels like a slow fps, I know I thought so when I first started, thus I gravitated to the play style I was most familiar with, Mobility rather than just standing still trying to line up shots. Many good players I have met also seem to gravitate to this play style, not because of some malicious need to exploit, but because it is familiar, natural, is effective in the right hands, and regardless of what the OMFG JH N00b!!'ers say, takes a decent amount of skill and dedication to get into.

Really, a sweeper/cycler Rexo has a faster ttk on me than I have on them a lot of the time, its a tough world out there most of the time, thus towers/bases are naturally gravitated to because of the opportunities for surprise and such, where the mobility of agile comes into its own.

Yes, the good players will still come through, its just frustrating seeing the devs rabidly trying to destroy a play style and class that many have become attached to. (What if they decided to remove infiltrator one day?) While surgile is far from dead as a result of this, it certainly does not help to know that the devs will come right out and say that they do not like it and want to get rid of it.

Until they nerf Agile/Surge/HA into oblivion I will still keep trying to use it, Just a shame they pick one class to destroy out of all others, (they just buffed rexo too!) =\

shaizan · 2004-03-17, 11:36 PM

Vick, I would submit that some of your assumptions are broad and unfair generalizations. Not everyone that has a difficult time dealing with Surgile tactics is a horrid player. In some cases it is due to hardware and/or connetion restrictions.

In my case I try to stay on the outskirts of a big fight as much as is practical so that I can funciton at a better efficiency. My machine does it's best, but there is only so much it can do.

I know I personally have a strong distaste for Surgile because of the warping issue that Surge exaggerates a great deal. Yes, it is still there with or with out Surge. However, Surge makes it much worse.

Anyway, I don't see whom you're trying to win over with 'you all suck' as an arugment. Did you expect folks to say, "Well, yes, Vick is right we are really bad at this game"

Every empire is going to get some really proficient and some really poor players as a result of the average of those players proficiency levels averaged across the empires. Thus, I 'm having a difficult time believing 'they all suck'.

Diddy Mao · 2004-03-17, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by Vick

I give up, I have no point.

I just think it is stupid some people cannot deal with a simple problem like surge. I liked using it the way it was, its fun, and effective. Without surgile everything seems so "newb friendly", we have loser-players calling SGswift and Arakiel newbs because they warp. Like they would not pwn you anyway. It is just dumb and it sucks. My computer specs, choice of weapon, and empire have nothing to do with it. Some people can compete, others cant, because they are not as good, so they whine and degrade the game. It happens everywhere.

Half comes from Frustration the other half comes from Jealousy, surge is easy to counter. Calling those that use it exploiters is totally unfair, but since good portion of this forum has a zerg mentality (One says one thing the other follows) the seperate opinions get shot down and treated like they have the plague. I find it Ironic that the ones some of you call n00bs have almost double your kills hardly classified as a n00b

oddfish · 2004-03-17, 11:40 PM

I give up, I have no point.

I just think it is stupid some people cannot deal with a simple problem like surge. I liked using it the way it was, its fun, and effective. Without surgile everything seems so "newb friendly", we have loser-players calling SGswift and Arakiel newbs because they warp. Like they would not pwn you anyway. It is just dumb and it sucks. My computer specs, choice of weapon, and empire have nothing to do with it. Some people can compete, others cant, because they are not as good, so they whine and degrade the game. It happens everywhere.

i hate to say this, but you've just repeated the same thing a zillion people have said before in defense of keeping this flawed concept in the game. IF YOU CAN'T HANDLE IT YOU SUCK SO GO DIE NOW PL33Z!!

this is not a good argument. at all. in any way. i'm not saying if you like surgile you're a piece of moose shit or anything, because i've owned guys using that tactic before and it doesn't affect me too much, but when some ass is warping all over the screen and kills me because i couldn't see him then that's a little bit stupid.

look, yay for computer specs and server strength.. the surgile thing was a problem, it needed solved and it got solved. i know it's not up to the specs of many of the PS gamers but if you're going to get pissed about it at least use a better argument than "JUST CUZ YOU CAN'T DEAL WITH SURGILES DOESN'T MEAN IT'S AN EXPLOIT, IT JUST MEANS YOU SUCK."

i know many a BR20 who've been killed by a surgile who's been warping all over the screen. these BR20's are 90 percent of the time not n00bs, trust me.

if there was no warping involved then they would have knocked the fuck out of the surgile user.. so don't tell me that it means you suck.. don't say that, cuz it's just bullshit. BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT. it's a bad argument.. BAD.

and until you come up with a better one and deliver it in a civil manner, and you can use naughty words as long as the antecedent of the naughty words isn't a person's name, then forget trying to say the change is bad. becuase i won't even bother replying to the same recylced junk over and over again.

SuperBallz · 2004-03-18, 11:04 AM

A Poll Would Of Been Good Here :P

Hitman47 · 2004-03-18, 11:19 AM

If there is a problem with the warping then why dont they make it so that there is a consistant delay with jumping when it comes to turning surge on rather then just redoing surge all over that way it would eliminate the warping problem

Krinsath · 2004-03-18, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by Diddy Mao

Half comes from Frustration the other half comes from Jealousy, surge is easy to counter. Calling those that use it exploiters is totally unfair, but since good portion of this forum has a zerg mentality (One says one thing the other follows) the seperate opinions get shot down and treated like they have the plague. I find it Ironic that the ones some of you call n00bs have almost double your kills hardly classified as a n00b

Not everyone who uses Surge with Agile is an exploiter. However, a large enough number of them are.

The Devs apparently did not intend for the Agile to be able to dominate the Rexo under any conditions. Compete? Yes. Dominate? No.

Their whole approach in the design WAS to take it away from the high-speed twitch gaming so common on CS and other FPSes. That's why you have the huge continents and the big battles. Yes, it is familar to those who have played other FPSes, but PS is not like other FPSes...which is why the Devs have decided that Surge no longer fits their design goals and needs to be slightly altered.

I have no doubt that Swift and Prophet and Arakiel and others will still be competitive, because they are not stupid players who need a crutch. Sad fact is that they are not the only type of Surgile out there and many people DO use warping and surge as a crutch. The Devs do not want players to use crutches, you sink or swim on your own merits. As I said, good players will be good players, even if all you give them to fight with is a baseball bat.

Krinsath · 2004-03-18, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by Hitman47

If there is a problem with the warping then why dont they make it so that there is a consistant delay with jumping when it comes to turning surge on rather then just redoing surge all over that way it would eliminate the warping problem

As has been mentioned many times: on majority of inclines and definately in large battles, the warping can be accomplished without jumping. Hence, anything that affects only jumping will not solve the core problem.

I think the Devs have the best solution short of fixing the problems with the engine, which based on their previous failed attempts to do so, might not be currently possible.

kidriot · 2004-03-18, 04:26 PM

the DEVs have done one of the worst things you can do to an online game.

they�ve battered together the wonderful clusterfuck PS once was and could have been into a nicely shaped cube where no one is allowed to think outside the box.

congratulations to newbs and Joe Blows who, out of sheer suck-itude, have ruined the game for the few remaining greats this game had.

with your whines, you�ve punished the players who pushed the envelope on this game. the players that evolved this game into quick and dirty warfare are now obligated to rexotanks if they want to achieve similar success. you have punished movement, adaptation and quick-thinking.

you�ve eliminated the rock, paper, scissors of PS into rexotank rexotank rexotank.

grats to you.

Krinsath · 2004-03-18, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by kidriot

the DEVs have done one of the worst things you can do to an online game.

they�ve battered together the wonderful clusterfuck PS once was and could have been into a nicely shaped cube where no one is allowed to think outside the box.

congratulations to newbs and Joe Blows who, out of sheer suck-itude, have ruined the game for the few remaining greats this game had.

with your whines, you�ve punished the players who pushed the envelope on this game. the players that evolved this game into quick and dirty warfare are now obligated to rexotanks if they want to achieve similar success. you have punished movement, adaptation and quick-thinking.

you�ve eliminated the rock, paper, scissors of PS into rexotank rexotank rexotank.

grats to you.

kidriot, it's posts like this that make it hard for anyone to take the Surgiles seriously. It amounts to "whine whine whine...bitch bitch bitch"...which ironically is what you accuse others of.

Fact is warping is a PROBLEM and problems get FIXED.

For the umpteen millionth time, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT THE ACTUAL EFFECTS OF THIS WILL BE IN GAME.

So please, STFU until the patch is available and then if it has reduced all CQB to Rexo on Rexo, you may resume your complaints. For all you know, Surgile could be just as viable a style, but not nearly as overpowering as it is currently. Surgiles still have their alternate style and CAN be effective, and those who actually invest in armor don't have to wonder why they wasted three certs to be beaten by the guy who's using the free suit.

If you're going to post, at least have a point other than pointless crying that your toy has been taken away. I have no idea how old you are, but please...mature a bit.

Madcow · 2004-03-18, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by Krinsath

If you're going to post, at least have a point other than pointless crying that your toy has been taken away. I have no idea how old you are, but please...mature a bit.

To the best of my knowledge he hasn't played the game in months. He's not criticizing them for taking his toy away.

oddfish · 2004-03-18, 04:47 PM

the DEVs have done one of the worst things you can do to an online game.

they�ve battered together the wonderful clusterfuck PS once was and could have been into a nicely shaped cube where no one is allowed to think outside the box.

congratulations to newbs and Joe Blows who, out of sheer suck-itude, have ruined the game for the few remaining greats this game had.

with your whines, you�ve punished the players who pushed the envelope on this game. the players that evolved this game into quick and dirty warfare are now obligated to rexotanks if they want to achieve similar success. you have punished movement, adaptation and quick-thinking.

you�ve eliminated the rock, paper, scissors of PS into rexotank rexotank rexotank.

grats to you.

uh. no. that's just not even within the ballpark of a rational and enlightened response. basically, what you've established is that the people who don't use surgile are behind the curve or something.

kidriot · 2004-03-18, 04:47 PM

the fact is warping WILL NOT be fixed with this heavy nerf to surgile.

the fact is you warp WITH a weapon in hand. you warp WORSE without a weapon in hand, because of your increased speed.

they havn�t changed the nature of surge, only the nature of it�s usage with weapons. where�s the fix to warping? what they are �fixing� is surgile. please, don�t fool yourself. this will not, in any way, affect warping. you will still warp when surging up and down stairs or when jumping. hell, even vehicles occasionally warp.

and MadCow is correct, I havn�t played since November. my post isn�t a bitch or a whine it�s more of a

�Hey, listen up, we evolved this game to the point where a handful of us completely changed the face of Planetside. We created a tactic to control spawnpoints which is the primary concern of any battle in Planetside. We didn�t do it because of warping but because we were great players. Now you fucked us because they didn�t FIX WARPING but they are FIXING our playstyle. Enjoy your game.�