Liberator Chaff [New Idea]

MrPaul · 2004-04-12, 06:35 AM

I was looking at Dopplers Air Hate thread, when I realised just how easy it is to hit a lib with a missile of some sort, as they go slow. So I started to think of ways to make this less of a problem.

Straight away I realised - chaff! If planes today use it, and submarines have used it for yonks, why would it not be used in the future? Liberators could be equipped with one or two pockets of chaff to disperse at the pilots will. Or one pocket of chaff and a few flares (to throw off heat seekers). This would help the liberators chances of survival against just ground troops (I mean, come on, in real life would 2 troops in some hills be able to take out a full strength bomber? Unlikely.

So what I propose is that each new Liberator come ready equipped with the chaff, but once it is used you can't get any more from RR terminals. This would mean that people would need to work as a team if they wanted to use/ fight off Libs.

Fighting Libs: You'd need proper air cover, so the mozzies or reavers could chaingun them to death.
Using: If you were going to go, and they were properly ready (ie with reavers and mozzies), there is no way you should go against them without a rear gunner (as so many libs do).

Now I know people will say "Oh but that gives the TR MAX an amazing advantage" and, while in some respects you're right, doesn't everyone have access to the skyguard? (Another teamwork building feature) And besides, other MAXes would be able to hit them when a: the lib ran out of chaff or b: it has a crap pilot. (read: uncoordinated)

As a former Lib pilot and TR MAXer, I think this would liven the game up, make it slightly easier to do more than runs on a base with a Vanu AA MAX.

Any comments would be much appreciated.

Biohazzard56 · 2004-04-12, 06:49 AM

There would have to be other factors involved, just because it has Chaff that doesnt mean its immune, the mistake of many lib pilots is staying in one spot bombing, go in bomb, get out and you should be fine, Or get a tail gunner, and Shake the AA MAX Locks.

Advanced Combat Abilities are going to be nice, AA Counter Measures so you may see what you want Implemented.

hazzer2007 · 2004-04-12, 07:04 AM

Good idea. All aircraft in planetside could use it, but still have sastictics on it i.e. every 3/4 chaff/flair will work.

MrPaul · 2004-04-12, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by Biohazzard56

the mistake of many lib pilots is staying in one spot bombing, go in bomb, get out and you should be fine,

Yeah, it's suicide if you stay still in a lib, I know that much. If you do that whilst Air Cav/ AA is around you deserve to be shot down.

Or get a tail gunner, and Shake the AA MAX Locks.

Have you ever flown in a lib and been locked onto? The fact it has no afterburners means you can't *** off round a corner and hide. Then theres the fact that 95% of the time it's used as a HAB (high altitude bomber) mean that theres nowhere to *** behind for cover anyway. And even if there was, the missiles are far more manuverable than anything else (natch) and the lib handles like a flying sunderer, so that's a no win situation. I just felt that libs needed to be able to avoid the complete ownage of AA MAXes by some other means than afterburning away.

Of course, as you say, there would be no guaruntees it'd work (as in in a situation, not the implementation). And it would depend on factors like timing and if you were diving/ climbing the chaff would have a different spread, and just plain luck (ie. it works 9 times out of 10 - the other time the missile just isn't affected for one of many reasons)

Hazzer - I don't think that all aircraft should use it, maybe the libs and lodes, and maybe gals, but definitely not mozzies or reavers as they have other ways to avoid missiles. Glad you like the idea though.

Thanks for the feedback though.

flypengy · 2004-04-12, 07:28 AM

While the idea of chaff/flares sounds cool, I don't think this would be a good solution to help libs. The biggest counter libs have against aa maxes is their armor. You can take a lot of passes by a base with only one aa max there and not get shot down, and with locks being as bugged as they can be, it makes it even easier when at ceiling.

I'd have to say libs are like tanks of the sky. A solo tank can get thrashed by several infantry (jammers + av > tanks). A couple of tanks however will stomp quite a few infantry solo. Libs are the same. Strength in numbers. Not every aa max will target the same aircraft. Also, when gunning for a tank... what do you target first? That which is the greatest threat. Be it another tank, av max, or someone with decimators. Libs should be intelligent enough to do the same, it just requires more coordination. The pilot needs to fly over the source of where those missiles are being generated. An aa max will either move to get away from the bombs (losing lock) or end up dead ending the problem.

Then again, some of the most kills by bomber has ever gotten was when we were the only lib in the sky :-p

JakeLogan · 2004-04-12, 09:49 AM

My only question is what great advantage would a TR AA MAX get? It's damn near impossible to hit a lib at flight ceiling.

Lartnev · 2004-04-12, 10:00 AM

Striker has problems hitting a ceiling lib too if its moving.

flypengy · 2004-04-12, 10:09 AM

Striker can't hit ceiling, unless the shooter is significantly above sea level. I think striker range is 250m. I know it's not over 350.

Onizuka-GTO · 2004-04-12, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by JakeLogan

My only question is what great advantage would a TR AA MAX get? It's damn near impossible to hit a lib at flight ceiling.

But you can't fool a TR burst shell with chaff/flare.

Chaff will work on the Striker and NC AA maxes.

Flare will work on Phoenix's and possiblely Vanu AA Maxes?

But the TR AA maxes wil lhave a huge advantage....

JakeLogan · 2004-04-12, 10:46 AM

Unless your on high ground Searhus moutain surrounding the volcano, Cyssor moutain, or ceryshen, the striker means absolute dick against a lib at flight ceiling my only problem with it is the fact that it still locks on to it.

Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO

But you can't fool a TR burst shell with chaff/flare.

Chaff will work on the Striker and NC AA maxes.

Flare will work on Phoenix's and possiblely Vanu AA Maxes?

But the TR AA maxes wil lhave a huge advantage....

But whats the point of not fooling flak when I can't even aim at the lib when it's above me?

drsomewhere · 2004-04-12, 12:01 PM

Or you could use the TR's only way of taking on Lib's...Stand around the vehicle pad waiting for the end...

Biohazzard56 · 2004-04-12, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by MrPaul

Have you ever flown in a lib and been locked onto? The fact it has no afterburners means you can't *** off round a corner and hide. Then theres the fact that 95% of the time it's used as a HAB (high altitude bomber) mean that theres nowhere to *** behind for cover anyway. And even if there was, the missiles are far more manuverable than anything else (natch) and the lib handles like a flying sunderer, so that's a no win situation. I just felt that libs needed to be able to avoid the complete ownage of AA MAXes by some other means than afterburning away.

Of course, as you say, there would be no guaruntees it'd work (as in in a situation, not the implementation). And it would depend on factors like timing and if you were diving/ climbing the chaff would have a different spread, and just plain luck (ie. it works 9 times out of 10 - the other time the missile just isn't affected for one of many reasons)

After you finish the bombing run dont countinue to fly straight out, turn around back to your friendly lines. Most of the time you wont get to many missle locks and at this stage the pilot can move around as much as they want to see to try and get rid of missle lock. Ive lost missle locks lots of times, not always but its always a good idea to try and the Lib cant make decently sharp turns.

Breed · 2004-04-12, 01:06 PM

I think libs are fine how they are, if they catch a base with minimal air defenses then they wreak havoc with the forces their.

ChewyLSB · 2004-04-12, 01:11 PM

I'm pretty sure the only real cost effective way to take out a single liberator is with air. Skyguard's require one and a half clips from their magazine to take out one liberator, and since the liberator (I believe) moves faster than the Skyguard, they can outrun the Skyguard before they finish destroying it. Striker's can't hit the flight ceiling, Lancers are hard as hell to aim with, and Pheonix's might not be able to hit the flight ceiling either.

MrPaul · 2004-04-12, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by JakeLogan

My only question is what great advantage would a TR AA MAX get? It's damn near impossible to hit a lib at flight ceiling.

I do it a lot. You just have to lock down and aim ahead (logical, really).

I get what you're saying Bio, it's just that most of the time (or, whenever I've been in a lib) the only bases worth bombing are a fair distance from friendlies, as otherwise friendlies are mingling with the enemy, so you risk killing a lot of friendlies (although sometimes its worth killing a couple). And then when the enemy gets you in ther sights you either a: ride it out and hope there's not two of 'em. b: bank and try to run (without afterburners. argh.) or c: bail (you wuss) And with any but the first, you lose the ability to bomb (at least for a while, as you bank or even just turn) and thus negate the idea of it being a bomber. I guess in many a way it is easy to do as you say, but I just feel that such a slow moving target needs some sort of missile avoidance system.

(I may bring up the idea of making mozzies do barrel rolls as well, in case anyone feels that they need some missile avoidance [more so than already]. )