How I see a MAX:

[Eldanesh]

http://psforums.station.sony.com/ps/...ssage.id=26011

Now, I have used AI and AV maxs extensively on all empires, and I have come to few conclusions about maxs and a max�s role in the game.

1: They are support certs. They play an important role in a squad, and a mix of heavy infantry and maxs is far tougher than a greater number exclusive to either.

1a. They are not intended to work by themselves, while they can in situations like defense and holding a line, their inability to hack or repair reduces their ability to solo for any period.
1b. A max with infantry amplifies their number because attackers either have AV out and get killed by grunts, or have their AI guns out and get killed by the max.
1c. A max should not be a Swiss army knife like infantry, nor should a AI max be guaranteed to kill an infantry rexo/av grunt 1v1.
1d. An over buffed class of maxs would be detrimental to gameplay.

2: AI max was perfected in the Scattercannon.

2a. The SC�s role interacts perfectly with its empire ability because it can control crowds and just right into the fray with a short-ranged choke.
2b. The AV damage of the SC is just right for locking down spawn rooms and defending itself from other maxs.
2c. The TTK of the SC is perfect to shred infantry while still giving grunts a time to get in a kill.

3: VS and TR maxs lack an AI max that has the same potential as a SC.

3a. TTK on DC is such that it is a little too easy for a grunt to turn a corner get hit once and retreat.
3b. Aside from infantry stopping power, the VS/TR AI maxs lack the ability to kill armor efficiently, in max v max, both bend over, AP mode or not, and tubes take too long to kill as well.
3c. TR max ability is far less effective without an indirect fire AI max.

This brings me to what I envision maxs as, not overpowered killing machines, but as infantry support. Scattercannon is perfect, it is what an AI max should be. Quasar kills infantry just fine, it tends to bend over to anything armored however. DC suffers from the same problem, but its also a bit too slow at AI work as well.

What I would like to see is the AI maxs as not just anti-infantry, but anti-max as well. The AV max should be modified into less of an overspecialized, nigh-pointless anti-max max and more into an outdoor max. Projectiles that lock on similar to strikers, but do more damage to hard targets (You know, TANKS!) if they are going to make max armor separate from tank armor, then they might as well buff AV damage.

(By the way, I think the Deci is **bleep**ing perfect as is and it is a BAD idea to nerf its damage to maxs, I do like the idea of separating damage for max v max combat, however)

IMO, the idea of separating maxs into the roles of AI, AV, and AA was a bad idea in itself, range brackets seems more logical, i.e. rename AI maxs something like Assault maxs and a similar style of name for AV like Ranger.

New AI max could cover close range much like current SC does, Not having explosive weapons means they would have a faster TTK max vs max than the new AV max.
The new AV max would cover the outdoors for a certain distance, striker-like range means they could go outside and have limited air cover as well as vehicle defense. Fast-fire dumbfire mode would allow for no damage degradation, giving it a decent range. The new AV max should kill other maxs about as fast as a new AI max would, just it will end up hitting itself a lot up close, thus it loses effectiveness indoors.

Now� What I would do about the current AI maxs: General buff to AV damage, All have about the same TTK on maxs, scattercannon would still have a slightly faster one up close, followed by the DC, then Quasar because of range differences. The DC would get a slight reworking on empire ability and damage distribution. Imo, SC should be doing 100% damage unlocked, while this is all theoretical percents, what it means is, it should have a sweet sot for killing infantry while unlocked where it kills faster than any other AI max. This should mean: quasar has longest effective range, DC had good range, but kills most efficiently up close/medium, and SC retains its short-range killing, with 1/3 speed choke shots for range.

DC should use a capacitor. 110% with the same CoF as normal. The catch, its an inverted capacitor, call it a heat meter. It should last for a good 7-10 seconds of constant firing until the gun locks up. The TR gets to keep their lockdown as well, however. 120% faster TTK and no heat buildup/ very slow heat buildup.

For what its worth, that�s what I think a maxs role should be and what the maxs should be. For those too lazy to read it all, its giving the MA/HA rock/paper/scissors range setup to maxs and actually making the AV max worth the 3 certs. Also make the AA max 3 **bleep**ing certs already!

I finally got around to compiling my views on maxs, would like opinion from you guys.

[jsloan31]

Nice ideas, would change gameplay a lot.

[Rbstr]

this is the best idea i have heard in a VERY long time.

Also do you have anyting more for AA maxes?

[Eldanesh]

I hate AA maxs, my idea is make them 3 certs :P otherwise, they should be crapy AV and AI for the way they wtfpwn aircraft.

[SilverLord]

Originally Posted by Eldanesh

I hate AA maxs, my idea is make them 3 certs :P otherwise, they should be crapy AV and AI for the way they wtfpwn aircraft.

[Peacemaker]

<3 Eldanesh

[EarlyDawn]

Originally Posted by Eldanesh

I hate AA maxs, my idea is make them 3 certs :P otherwise, they should be crapy AV and AI for the way they wtfpwn aircraft.

Negative on that one. Not all AV is created equal, the lancer and pheonix being usually useless against aircraft. The prevalence of AA MAXes keeps the air population under control. The last thing we need is more reavers.

Hopefully you'll get some aid once countermeasures come out.

[Eldanesh]

AA maxs are the cheapest exp machines in the game, something is fundamentally wrondg with them being that cheap, point-wise. They should wtfpwn air, but 2 certs is just a little too... little?

I don't even aircav that much, its just AA max is really cheap for what it does, although reavers are the most common vehicle in the game, AA maxs are the most common max.

Also while getting skillfired is annoying, I get shot down more often in my lib by lancers and mines.

In their current state, would you argue that any AV max is worth one more cert than an AA max?

[HawkEye]

yea good ideas. to me maxes are just decimator targets. when i see a max i start to drool as i win 1v1 no matter what max it is most of the time i win.

[BadAsh]

I like much of what was said here... AV MAX Units should have a lockon ability for ground vehicles and MAX units... that would make them suck less. As far as making the AA MAX cost more cert wise, I think it's fine as it is. The AA MAX is ONLY effective at killing Air targets and gets wtfpwn by everything but enemy aircraft. That's the drawback to that MAX. And besides SOMETHING has to keep the hordes of Reavers in check.

[321]

Originally Posted by HawkEye

to me maxes are just decimator targets.

Just the way I like them

Originally Posted by HawkEye

when i see a max i start to drool as i win 1v1 no matter what max it is most of the time i win.

Yeah and then your like guys guys I got my first kill in two hours YES! jk .

[Lartnev]

AA MAX should be 3 certs.

It makes sense for the AV MAXs to be able to do damage at range as that is the time when it's not certain death for the AV MAX.

The scattercannon works because its TTK is as high as , if not higher than, the Jackhammer. The Lasher and MCG are far better AI weapons than the quasar and anchored TR MAX (conversely I believe the TR MAX works better unanchored at the moment as you can close the distance and make full use of your RoF instead of missing all the time.

The Sparrow and Starfire MAXs aren't bad vs MAXs and infantry, burster is hopeless unless it gets direct hits.

In my opionion, AI MAXs must be better at killing infantry than MA (even if it's just slightly), AV MAXs must be comparable to AV, especially at range. AA is popular because it's better than AV at attacking air targets. MAXs fail because they are not worth the movement and turning speed, lack of versatility, 5 minute timer and inability to be bought from an AMS. The restrictions do not currently outweigh the advantages of a MAX suit (and I agree with all the restrictions).

At the present time I am in favour of the decimator nerf to MAX unit. Time will tell whether my opinion changes on this matter.

[Rbstr]

the scatter cannon has much slower TTK thatn the JH, but i feel its just right for an AI max, thoguht the quazar is preaty damn evil, ROF > DC max, and the AV is acctualy not that bad

[Nereid]

The scattercannon is somewhat like 180% above the DC when its unlocked and about 100% above it still when the DC is locked down considering the TTK of a SC against a rexo is 1.000 and the DC when not locked down is 2.850 and locked its 2.090 so its not actually 90/120 when comparing them. The DC does have better range but taking it outside is suicide. As it stands now ALL of the medium assault weapons have a faster TTK then both the quasar and the dual-cycler MAXes. Unlocked the DC max has a TTK on par with a supressor but since its coming from two guns it is much more inaccurate.The decimator is pretty cheap against MAXs I think. You can walk up to a Quasar while its shooting you and fire a deci into it. Stand there still and recieve its fire as you wait for the 2nd shot. Then fire the 2nd shot to kill the MAX. That MAX lands 100% of its shots on you at close range yet could do nothing to stop you from killing it indoors with a deci. Deci = win botton vs TR and VS MAXes. The scattercannon can stop a deci user because it can actually kill the infantry before he has time to fire a 2nd round and it has a shield to obsorb a whole deci round with. With PS and its own shield a NC MAX can withstand all 3 deci rounds and still be alive. I think the TTK of both the quasar and DC should be brought up to par with the scattercannon or at least buffed to where their more effective then 2 cert grunt weapon.

[Nereid]

Actually the scattercannon has a faster TTK then the jackhammer if the jackhammer is in primary mode. Only in secondary does the jackhammer surpass it. The SC can kill a rexo in 3 shots at close range if hes not using PS or med packs while a Jackhammer requires 4.

JH rof: 0.475 *primary fire*
SC rof: 0.500

JH primary TTK: 1.425
SC ttk: 1.000
JH 2nd ttk: 0.575

Their pretty close but if you compare a DC MAX to a MCG theirs a massive difference.