15 Brits to be freed as "Gift" shortly.

[Hamma]

This world is fucked, and this country is fucked.

There's no other way around it

[Peacemaker]

Seriously, back then everyone was afraid of the bomb. If you fucked up either your superpower backers or their enemy was gonna ass fuck you so hard your neck would look like a slinky. Everyone was extremly careful when they did stuff. Trying to make sure they didnt step on someones toes.

Now we live in a nation of bleeding heart liberals, while Im not a conservative or a liberal I say fuck talk. If you fuck with us or our friends you should get the ass reaming without lube. All this shit is fall out from vietnam. They hippies found out that if they wine and bitch enough the US will bend over and take it nice and hard because war is wrong.

Is war wrong? Hell no. Is it bad? Yes. War is what humanity has done, is doing, and will continue to do for all of its existance. We are a society where the ones who can kill the most bad guys in a movie is awsome. But when it comes to real life its diffrent. Suddenly killing a bad guy is the wrong thing to do. We should talk to the bad guy and wait for him to knife us in the gut.

I dont want war, I dont want conflict, but I definatly dont want a bunch of hippies bitching up a storm because we went to a country that if given the opportunity would have tried to fund/ use a weapon with the intent of killing civilians. God it pisses me off to no end when I hear someone say something about the US killing civilians in this war. No, terrorists are killing civilians. US laser guided bombs kill civilians because the scum of the earth hide in places where a bomb no matter how precise WILL kill a civilian. The US strives for accuracy, we take out targets with as little casualties as possible, to us and Civies. Terrorists walk into crowded markets, busses, subways, planes... ect ect and attempt to kill as many civilians as possible. So we should let these people roam the earth.

I keep reading and seeing people busting on Bush for not pulling out of Iraq. I hate Bush. I think the man is an idiot. He has no place in office. The flordia election was a scam. But. I do support the action he is taking. Granted it could be handled diffrently, it is a good course of action. He is thinking. The consequences of ending a war early in Iraq would be disasterous. The US would become the target of these bombs in malls. Then what? Who would be to blame then?

Gah, I cant belive I get so worked up about this crap. Kill them all, let god sort them out.

[Hamma]

Agreed on most points

This country today is fucking pissing me off with everything getting their panties in a bunch over shit like a Christmas tree or the easter bunny or even the three little fucking pigs.

[Lartnev]

I'm sorry but destroying the world under mushroom clouds over 15 servicemen (and woman) isn't worth it Peacemaker. It really isn't.

Diplomacy achieved our goal without bloodshed and that's the best result from what was described in headlines as "The Iran Crisis" (I have no idea why). Talk might not be exciting to watch on CNN, but it's the best place to start. You might argue that this somehow shows us as weak, daring others to try it. Given the current climate however I believe this sends out a far more powerful message: That the UK and the US are reasonable admininstrations, not countries looking for any excuse to attack Middle Eastern countries. If push comes to shove later down the line over Iran's nuclear program, we'll be able to point to this moment with some sense of the moral high ground.

[Kyonye]

Originally Posted by MrVicchio

Home.

Sky News: Breakthrough Hopes Grow


Well this is certainly some good news, can't wait to learn the reason for the release like this.


At least it appears they will be free and unharmed!

If you look at this incident with oil in mind, while the british soldiers were under iranian control, the prices of oil went up over $1 a barrel.. With this increase, Iran brought in over $2.5million per day. Now that they are being released, you can see the price of oil go down a little bit. The correlation is there.

Iran had no rights to take them, but unfortunately nothing will really be done about it. Going to war with Iran wouldn't be the best idea at the moment.

[Peacemaker]

Im not saying nuke people. Im saying that the world was a much more stable place during the cold war. The threat of total annihlation existed on both sides. No one dared to piss in a river for fear of pissing someone off. The Cold war kept the peace more than peace does now. The sovs broke up and look what happened? Half of Africa is on fire, The Mid East thinks it can do what ever the fuck it wants based on "god told me to do it", and South Korea thinks it can do what ever it wants.

The number of wars that happened during the cold war are minimal compared to what weve got now. Iraq 1/2, Afganastan, Serbia, Isreal is a warzone, Africa once again is a constant shit storm. We had Korea, Vietnam and the Six Day war during the Coldwar. And if you want to get technical the Cuban Missle crisis.

The more countries see us take a less hard line approach and try and make a deal and talk the more are going to start pulling little stunts. Im a realist, the world walked on a nice straight path because if they didnt the US would shove a carrier right up its ass, or the USSR would send a thousand tanks. The world was controled by fear. Not by negotiations. Now people are starting not to fear us because we look like a bunch of pussies.

Take a real life example. You walk into a bar, your a 6'8 22 y/o, built like a rock, you carry a hand gun. A guy slaps your girls ass, and you tell him not to do it again, hes drunk and tries picking a fight, you back down, he keeps going. His buddies see your a big push over, you wont hit anyone. They join in, you get your ass beat.

Iran didnt have to release those sailors. What would we do if they didnt? We dont have the military forces to commit. We could bomb them, but they could invade Iraq. Then we would be REALLY screwed. Iran was holding all the cards. We got lucky. To me it looks like they were just prodding to see how weak we really are letting our selfs become.

You cant back down your whole life and then make demands. It doesnt work. Once again, Im not saying nuke everyone who disagrees. But I seriously think its time to stop pussy footing around the world. Start flexing our muscles. More stratigic bombing on people who fuck with us. Slaps on the wrist. Keep the idiots inline before there is a riot.

People say we try to police the world? Good. Someone has to do it. If not everyone is going to shit on us because we have it better in their eyes, or we help people who dont belive in their god. Ive heard a few retards say something like "we should talk to the Insurgents (read terrorists)" and come to an agreement. WOW, and people think Bush is out of the loop.

[Rbstr]

The same guy in a bar pisses off everyone instead of letting them walk over him.

One is wronged that wants revenge. And this one is a talented speaker.

He will wait and he will gather those hurt by the brute and they will gang up on him just the same in the end.

[Peacemaker]

Good point, Im a little more strong headed than most. But you must admit, there is a time for talking and there is time for fighting, and too many people are out there blabbing that you can just talk through everything, In my eyes the United States looks like it has become weak. We let too many people trample over us who hide behind the idea that they arnt from a country, and we cant do anything to them.

Take Iraq for example, most of the country wants out, so do I, but I dont want out now. Thinking that everything will go away if we pull out is foolish. Thinking that we should not have invaded because Saddam didnt have WMDs is even more foolish, what if he did? If the possibility of a WMD in the hands of someone who would use it irresponsibly existed shouldnt that possibility be eliminated? You dont let someone like that sit on a nuke and hope he wont use it, because he would. Given time, he would use it. Then what? Then Bush gets blamed because LA just got vaped? Guess thats would be his fault too.

[Rbstr]

Iraq sucks so much.

We shoudl have never been tehre in teh first place, and in the beginning I was more along the mindset of "You break it, you buy it." However, it simply is not getting any better. The country has devolved into a civil war, and the current course of action is not helping things.

In my eyes the US is now seen as someone whom invades countries under fales pretences, almost at a whim(Iraq did not support terrorist groups untill we invaded, they would undermine Sadam's control over the ethnic groups, evil he may be he's still smart. Iran on the other hand has only one prime ethnicity and does support terror, and their weapons programs had not been dismantled. He didn't have WMDs and we essentialy knew, and any evidence that was either fabricated or so speculative it shoudl have held no wieght to a rational person. Also, give time, has russia used a nuke, any country besides the US for that matter? MAD still fucking applies and Sadam sure as hell knew that if he had attacked america with one.). A country that seems to think it has a right to tell other countries they can't do things that the US has, simply becsaue we're better than them.

The world sees us as stuck up assholes. The way to fix that is to show justification or to own up to being wrong.

I'd love to be able to make parralels with the balkans and other conflicts of the sort where outsides were able to step in an help, with this current Iraqi situation. But I can't. In those cases one side has generaly been oppressed and welcomes the help, but in this case, we broke up a system that managed(albiet inhumanely) to keep these people from killing each other, and they all hate us. We've only succeded in widening the anti-american base in the middle eas; it will come back to bite us.

Some kind of equivelent to WW2's Marshall plan would have probably made it so much easier to fix this. There we fucked peoples shit up as punishment and then made it so they could live their lives again, lesson learned. Here we are just fucking more and more shit, and doing jack shit about it.

So I say we leave, and see what happens. If the insugency decides to attack us outside of Iraq, well, then we have real justification to fuck their shit up. Untill then we are only serving to make ourselves worse off.

[Peacemaker]

MAD doesnt apply if they use the weapon in a way that it is unknown who had done it. The acctual ability to sneak a nuke into say NY Harbor isnt that hard. Blow it up onboard a ship in the harbor and its easy. Briefcase nukes are a reality.

You Rob obviously dont know alot of soldiers. Many many of my friends are in Iraq right now. Kind of Ironic one of my best friends in the whole world is sleeping behind a sand dune right now. His name is Rob.

Two months ago Rob came home for a week for his wedding. I ofcourse went and saw my near brother. What he told me suprised me. He was in one of the hottest spots in Iraq for 6 months, what did he tell me? Its not as bad as the media portrays. Yes, its bad but its not the Civil war everyone thinks it is. 90% of the population love the Soldiers, welcomed them with open arms. 8% Want us to leave because we undermined the authority (who was them) and 2% are trying to kill us. I guess that means if you went to a school with a hundred people 90 like you, 8 dislike you, and 2 want to beat you up means you should leave.

And if you really belive we were completly unjustified in invading Iraq your arrogent. Once again, you cannot deny that if Saddam had the ability to he would have used a WMD (Bio/chem/nuclear) against either the United States, or more likly a certain Jewish state. I doubt he would have directly shot it and painted a target on his ass. A more likly senario is he would have given the weapon to terrorists and let them do the dirty work.

No terrorists in Iraq before this is a laugh. They showed satalite pictures of training camps for them in the country. Saddam may not have been funding it but he definatly wasnt taking measures to keep it out. The lack of action leaves him guilty of supporting Terrorists.

Finally, you want to see what happens if we just up and left? I shall see what you say when a terrorist drives a truck bomb into your city and kills a hundred and fifty people. Then suddenly the fear strikes home again. Suddenly its 9/11 all over again. Everyone in this fucking country went "I will never forget.". Mother fucking newsflash. THEY DID. They forgot the fear, the pain, the uncertainty. They stoped acting like americans should. Everyone was united for all of 2 weeks. Then they just flew flags and faked it.

Maybe your right Rob, Maybe we should pull out and wait for a major city to get Vaped, or 10 million get poisoned in a Chemical attack. Maybe then this country will remember again. The goal was clear in 2001. Terrorists must pay, the evil must be wiped from the earth. In 1944 it was obvious who the bad guys were. The only diffrence now is that we have to search, and people are too lazy to search. They want results NOW or they dont want us to even try.

Like I said, maybe this country NEEDS to have a few thousand people wiped out. Although this time I imagine what will happen will be on a far grander scale. Either a huge number of conventional sucide bombers or an acctual WMD. I just hope that if it happens Im not standing here saying something like "I told you so, now everyone I know is dead." or Im NOT standing here because I am dead. It would be far more appropriate for the people who think the oceans on either side of this country will still protect their children from the lunatics who want to kill us all. (Im not acctualy saying that they think that, Im paraphrasing)

I just dont see any logic in thinking it wont happen, or the chance is low. The chance is quite high. Even if we didnt pull out of Iraq and it did settle I imagine it will still eventualy happen. But its garunteed to happen if we just leave the country in a position where a minority will take power again.

[Lartnev]

Originally Posted by Peacemaker

Take a real life example. You walk into a bar, your a 6'8 22 y/o, built like a rock, you carry a hand gun. A guy slaps your girls ass, and you tell him not to do it again, hes drunk and tries picking a fight, you back down, he keeps going. His buddies see your a big push over, you wont hit anyone. They join in, you get your ass beat.

So the right thing would have been to put a bullet in the drunken guy's brain pan the minute his finger touched ass? That seems to be what you're asking for.

I think what most people would agree upon is to first tell him to back off, then square up, start a fight, and if the guy pulls a knife you pull out your gun. This is a much slower process on the world stage but the principle is the same, you talk, then you threaten force, then you bring the force to bear.

I agree with about Iraq in that we took decisive action and now we need to see that action through. Nobody said it would be easy but people seem to think it was going to be so, or that just because the war has ended the peacekeeping would be a cakewalk.

[Giovanni]

Originally Posted by Lartnev

Nobody said it would be easy but people seem to think it was going to be so, or that just because the war has ended the peacekeeping would be a cakewalk.

I think people are aware that peacekeeping is a whole other matter. But right now the U.S is not peacekeeping and the war is far from over there. In Afghanistan it's over... Canada is peacekeeping for the U.S... there is no aggressive push on cities, mainly patrols and small firefights.

Also I do beleive that nobody aside from Dubya and his fellow bushies thought it was going to be easy. What ever happened to his "6 month in and out"? What now? 4 years and it's nowhere near over.

We need to drop the Hitler state of mind where anybody that pisses us off needs to die. Yes Iran is fucking annoying with their constant provocation, but it's like Korea... a kid who keeps poking you with a sharp stick over and over. Eventually when we have to we'll take the god damn stick away but until then there's no sense in getting into another war we can't handle with a country that has a real military, not just random people with AK47's and a couple of handgrenades and RPG's. We're talking about tanks, trained soldiers, artillery and sea and airforce.

Nuking it isn't an option either. We nuke, we die. Plus there's too many civilians. We can't afford being in the news again because we killed thousands of unarmed civilians with bombs.

We're in a cold war situation where we need to sit on our ass and wait for something that will probably never happen.

[Baneblade]

Warning, then Smackdown. If you don't bring it, nobody will take your warnings seriously.

[Rbstr]

Good place to drop this link.
"Hussein's Prewar Ties To Al-Qaeda Discounted" According to a Pentagon report Yesterday.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...?referrer=digg

[Peacemaker]

Al Qaeda ISNT the world terroist convention like everyone seems think. There are hundreds of other groups. Not all terrorists follow them. Just because they arnt linked to Al Qaeda does not mean they didnt support terrorism.

Absence of evidence is not proof of innocence.