Army of Two

[Hamma]

What the heck does that comic even refer to?

[Giovanni]

You can encourage your partner by pressing the A button next to him. They wind up playing air guitar or fist pouding. You can tell him "WTF!" by pressing the right trigger... and you wind up hitting him.

It's just something they added for flavour...

Sorry if I didn't describe it all that well eh.

[Rbstr]

Originally Posted by Kyonye

It's because too many people feel it will be taken to reality.

No, that is not the reason I take issue with it. Or the writers of Penny Arcade.
I don't take issue with the game at all really. It's fun. But I object to the events and actions in the game.

Your going to have to stick with me on this one:

It's not the levels of violence, it is the glorification thereof.
It is showing that fist bumping is an appropriate action after you've killed a couple dozen people. The game doesn't paint it as ironic or an outcome of a human being's need to cope or show it as social commentary in any way. The game lets us know that the action is Okay.

Video games are gradually becoming an art form and a way of conveying a message. As such we should increasingly judge the medium by artistic standards. Very similarly to how we judge movies or books(and perhaps more so, as the medium can be much more immersive and suggestive) a video game can be examined.
An example we see, in Bioshock, commentary on a number of things (like moral objectivism, Ann Rynd kind of stuff). One thing that might strike you is that, in the end, the reason you've undertaken these actions is that you where asked to. Your actions have been called into question. That is great social commentary. The game has made you think.

Army of two does not present present that kind of depth that Bioshock may, granted. However, we can still judge the actions of the characters on these grounds and call the fist bumping action disturbing.

The reason that army of two strikes me so is not that this attitude toward death and destruction might creep into real life.

It is that it is already present in real life.

We have seen this kind of disregard for violence and suffering often during the past few years. Security and Military Contractors (what a nice way to describe modern mercenaries) have been involved in a number of scandals that have died off rather quietly.
We see it in the constant refusal to ban so called enhanced interrogation, another wonderful euphemism of our time(which in the end does not squeeze information from people. It causes people to make things up.)
Just recently we saw the somewhat lesser, but still despicable, puppy-of-a-cliff video.
I don't see how we, as those with the supposed moral high ground, are okay with these things.

Army of two has managed to bump into this kind of issue inadvertently.

As a movie, Army of Two would fall into the entertaining category, not the good movie category.
Entertainment was it's premise and we can enjoy it as such, but it does contain deeper issues that can be discussed.

[Giovanni]

Aren't games I don't know? Made for entertainment?

Everywhere I look I see social commentaries. Last thing I need is for my games to give me a moral lesson about how to act as a human being.

Let's face it, 45% of the world has it's head up it's ass for stupid issues like this one. The other 45% is retarded and thinks such behavior is acceptable. A minority of humanity will see it for what it is... fun... that's all it is... just fun...

The day, where everyone understands that a game is made for fun, is unlikely to show it's face.

[Rbstr]

You don't seem to see what I'm getting at. The one of the first things I say about that game is that I think it's fun.
The fist-bumping issue is not a fault of the game. It's the fault of the characters of the game.

These are valid points for discussion. We can say that these things are wrong, independently of our judgment of the games entertainment value(though this may not hold true for every game, it could be objectionable to the point of stomach turning, but that point would be different for everyone).

At heart are music, novels and movies not made for entertainment, especially originally? The point is that they can contain much more. They don't have to (like most summer blockbusters) and sometimes they inadvertently carry a bit more.

[Giovanni]

Oh I'm not arguing against you, I'm just saying that critics are digging much too deep to find evil where it should not be found.

After all like I said (and as you said) it's just a game.

[Rbstr]

Well I am arguing against you. Your position is flawed. It's not just a game(and I didn't say that anywhere), it is a game with a story.

Storytelling, in any of it's forms, has a purpose behind it. If it's goal is entertainment, fine. This does not, however, exclude it from being analyzed.

Why is that that you don't want to think or feel emotion based on a game? Video games can be such a powerful storytelling medium, and yet we most often choose to ignore that.

Army of Two had an excellent opportunity to delve into deeper aspects of the story, and it didn't. Even Halo managed to attempt to portray the actions of the characters in a thoughtful manner(as meh as the attempt was). Being thoughtful does not have to be preachy and take away from that game. Why should we demand less?

[Hamma]

For once (ever i think) I agree with Gio.

Like Oma said, perhaps I am just an asshole

People take shit too seriously nowadays, this country sucks ass.

Someone says nappy headed ho on the radio and they are hung for it.

Fuck that. :\

[Rbstr]

I've got two responses, one in relation to not taking games as anything more than entertainment and the other in regard to the seriousness of the real world.

If you for some reason don't like discussing real wold issues, I suggest you stay away from the second part (given this forums anti-political-discussion history).

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If you don't want to discuss a finer point of art that is up up to you. To say that these finer points do not exist is mistaken. To oppose discussion of these points is backwards.

Video Games are reaching the true art threshold. It's not just whacking a little digital ball back and forth anymore. They can contain all of the makings of literature or a painting or art movies or music.

I think part of why we have disconnect here is that you think that I object to the game that contains the action I am opposed to. (who is actually reading my whole posts?)
That is not the case at all:
I found the game fine.
I object to the action itself.
It would have, in my opinion, been a better game for going after the issue.

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You really thing we take things too seriously in this country?

The reasons we have the crises of the modern age is because we didn't take anything seriously enough to give it real thought:
Religious Extremism
Non-renewable energy dependency
Climate Change
China, India and other 3rd world countries Industrializing(The globalization of the 1st world economy that comes along with it)
The national debt
The deregulation of our financial system
A Civil Rights movement that still hasn't found reconciliation
If the populace actually took these things seriously they would be solved.

A bigoted statement: not something to care about?
Fine.
Racism can never be put behind us, ever, when we take that stance.

The short version of section two:
Apathy is just the lazy man's way of maintaining the status quo.
Things don't go away when you don't pay attention to them.

[Giovanni]

Originally Posted by Hamma

For once (ever i think) I agree with Gio.

Like Oma said, perhaps I am just an asshole

People take shit too seriously nowadays, this country sucks ass.

Someone says nappy headed ho on the radio and they are hung for it.

Fuck that. :

HOLY FUCKING CRAP! Mark the calendar! Oma AND Hamma agreed with me... in a 7 days lapse.

Is this a sign?