PS2 Business Model - Page 6

Goku · 2011-07-11, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by artifice

People who play consoles games online are a much different playerbase than the PC. There's some crossover, but not much. Plus Xbox Live is essentially a monopoly on that platform. You have to buy it if you want to play online on the Xbox.

Agreed with that, but there are people who play PC and Xbox still.

artifice · 2011-07-11, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Volw

*sigh*

Are you trolling?

You have claimed GW1 business model is different than F2P which according to you is a bubble.

And I'm proving to you it's almost exactly the same model F2P games are based on, with cash store items packed into an expansion.

Now you're trying to de-rail it into comparing it to other MMOs. Here's a newsflash - GW1 is not an MMO.

And I still don't have my answer. I think I'll drop it right here - waste of time.

I could ask you the same thing. You are not very adept at picking up obvious answers apparently. It's dumbfounding I have have to explain the difference.

When you buy a sword in the cash shop, you are just buying an item. When you buy an expansion in either GW or any MMO, you are buying access to content. Meaning, if you want you can have a hundred of those swords if you want to spend the time getting them.

F2P cash shops nickle and dime you. In Runes of Magic as an example. To stat an item, you need to buy 6 purified fusion stones, each at 55 diamonds. That is about $15 worth. You then precede to either farm the loot to get the stats to add to the purified fusion stones which takes transmuter charges which takes even more diamonds. Let's not forget that if you do it this way, you need to do it over and over to get to more powerful dungeons. Also, it needs to be done for every item slot. You could just skip the farming stat phase and pay about 2 million gold per stat (about $10 per stat if you bought the gold with diamonds, you need six of them per piece of armor).

Then there is Tiering the weapons, which is too complicated and expensive to go into. Plussing all your items which involve using cash shop items that have a failure rate and if they fail reduce the plus (+16 is now the max). Adding rune slots and tiered runes. Buying wings to stat which can only be gotten in the item shop. Let's put it this way, you could spend $500 to fully stat your character... only to spend another $500 the following year to restat your character with the new expansion.

...

or you could pay $40 for an expansion pack.

Goku · 2011-07-11, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by moosepoop

subscription will also remove any hope of cross console with the ps3.

DCUO requires a sub on PC/PS3 and I think they are playable with each other on the same server.

I do not think there will be a PS3/PC crossover for PS2 as there is just too much of a advantage to a KB/Mouse over a controller. You can setup a mouse/KB for the PS3, but it has to be developed specifically for that game. Really the only FPS that did that was UT3 and even then those players who did not have a controller played on servers with PC players.

moosepoop · 2011-07-11, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Goku

DCUO requires a sub on PC/PS3 and I think they are playable with each other on the same server.

thats true bro, but planetside is a shooter. they invoke different reactions from the player base.

Originally Posted by Goku

too much of a advantage to a KB/Mouse over a controller.

actually i have high hopes for cross platform in planetside 2. mouse and keyboard give an advantage in high damage, low hp, fast paced twitch shooters. planetside is much slower paced and fast aiming is much less important.

with cross platform the population can be safely maintained at high levels for a long time.

Goku · 2011-07-11, 11:58 AM

Well if that is proved to be the case then I will welcome console players. Anything to have a broader audience to keep this game going for years.

**Malorn** · 2011-07-11, 12:47 PM

Something that I think may have been lost is the possibility that they can in fact have both free-to-play and a subscription service, with the subscription service basically serviing as a discount on some highly desirable convenience/services. And many people will get that.

I would break down the potential planetside population as follows

A) The set of players who will never, ever sub for a FPS game.
This includes quite a lot of current console players and classic FPS players such as team fortress 2, counter-strike, etc that have not and will not pay-to-play a FPS game. Perhaps their parents buy the game for them and aren't willing to put up a subscription fee. Perhaps they are against the principle of it, but they still want to play the game and will still put out the $60 to buy it.

B) The set of players that will not sub, but will occasionally purchase vanity items or services, like double training time or a recert/recustomization.
I think this is a rather large group. This is the population from A that finds micro-transactions appealing and non-committal. This is consistent with the way Xbox and other games work in the console world when you buy points and then spend them on game content, skins, themepacks, etc.

C) The set of players that will be on/off subscribers.
This is a fairly large group and probably represents the majority of MMO players and veteran planetsiders. Over the years we don't always have the game sub'd and may not feel it worthwhile to sub it. However, these players might still want to hop on and play the game for a few hours on a very casual basis in-between their re-subs.

D) The set of players that will be primary subscribers & make regular purchases.
These are your fat cats that dont' care how they spend money and dont' mind dropping a few hundred bucks a year for a game they play a lot. They'll probably go to fanfares too and take other expenses the typical gamer won't. For every one of these you can equal half a dozen or more subscribers in terms of revenue. They may move on to other games or they may also be on-off subscribers.

E) The set of trial players that are just feeling the game out before moving into one of the other categories.
Free 7-day trials, that sort of thing. They get let into the game, play around for a bit, then have to upgrade to the full deal. After that they become one of the other 4 categories of players.

The main point I was trying to make with the original post was that I believe a model can exist where all of these populations are included and PS2 makes steady revenue.

The on-off subscribers, the fat cats, and the casual transaction purchasers will supplement and more than make up for the loss of regular income from group A. However, group A is important because it brings in more players, and those players have friends who will sometimes be in the 2nd and 3rd category. Planetside is a game where it isn't very fun if there aren't people, and Group A while not bringing in steady income will bring in more players that can/will, and they will keep the game fun.

The on-off subscribers can also benefit from the free-to-play option when they unsub. They can come back try out the game from time to time and then get motivated to play again and possibly resub or make a microtransaction purchase. By having the F2P option you also keep the door open for those players to really come back at any time or simply never truly leave.

The key is having an adequate motivator for subscribing or having a few services/convenience items worth purchasing on a somewhat regular basis. Training time/xp modifier is a safe one and that's why I suggested it. People will pay for convenience. I'm mostly a 9-5'er these days and I'll happily pay extra money to make the smaller amount of playtime that I have 'count more' and ease the BR/cert grind. And whether I do or not really doesn't affect anyone else and is a revenue opportunity for SOE.

PS2 is a bit unique in that "MMO" and "FPS" have some very different player expectations. Those coming from the MMO side of things are OK with subscriptions and expect it. Those coming from the FPS side don't and prefer microtransactions simply because they are non-committal. Both can be satisfied.

moosepoop · 2011-07-11, 12:56 PM

i still find the idea of subscribing to a fps quite bizzare. personally im an on/ff subscriber because while i like the game, i cant justify long term subscription to planetside.

no story, no social community, no real objective, just larger than normal maps. while massive multiplayer is fun, it gets boring and theres a limit to how much i will pay money for it.

2coolforu · 2011-07-11, 01:07 PM

Clearly you shouldn't be here then, if you don't enjoy the game why are you here? Also did you ever play it before the game was killed off, when it actually had a decent subscriber base?

This is equivalent to me going on C&C 95 and saying it sucks and bores me because there's noone else online.

Goku · 2011-07-11, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by 2coolforu

Clearly you shouldn't be here then, if you don't enjoy the game why are you here? Also did you ever play it before the game was killed off, when it actually had a decent subscriber base?

This is equivalent to me going on C&C 95 and saying it sucks and bores me because there's noone else online.

Everyone is different. If we get a mix of everything here it should easily out do any revenue SOE got from the original PS even back at its peak sub base.

I have mentioned PS to many people and they get turned off from the monthly sub. Imagine just getting all those extra players willing to buy PS2 for $50 even with limited chars will give SOE more money. Not to mention way to more pop.

Skorne · 2011-07-11, 01:25 PM

I prefer a sub fee as it tends to keep most the 'trash' out, (hackers and the like) not completely but it helps. I personally would pay up to £10 a month for PS2 if it lives up to what they are saying, it sounds amazing. That said I also completely understand why people don't want to commit or can't afford to pay a sub.

But I'm really not a fan of F2P model games, since they usually end up being pay to win in some way. It would be acceptable if they were purely cosmetic items I guess - that way it's just taxing the guys who'll pay to look cool so the rest of the populace can play for free, but I strongly disagree with paying real money for advantages in any game.

Worst are the games with enforced subs and expensive cash shop ala WoW, that kind of pure greed disgusts me (as if they don't make enough money already!) and I refuse to pay for any in game items - and would not even play if all my friends didn't play it.

Gandhi · 2011-07-11, 01:27 PM

An often overlooked consequence of cosmetic items is the additional strain it places on the graphics engine. If what Higby said is true then they're already stretched pretty thin on available texture resources, I don't imagine there's much room for deluxe armor and the like.

Goku · 2011-07-11, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by Gandhi

An often overlooked consequence of cosmetic items is the additional strain it places on the graphics engine. If what Higby said is true then they're already stretched pretty thin on available texture resources, I don't imagine there's much room for deluxe armor and the like.

Easy enough to add just objects later on. Gotta spend money to make money after all.

2coolforu · 2011-07-11, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Goku

Everyone is different. If we get a mix of everything here it should easily out do any revenue SOE got from the original PS even back at its peak sub base.

I have mentioned PS to many people and they get turned off from the monthly sub. Imagine just getting all those extra players willing to buy PS2 for $50 even with limited chars will give SOE more money. Not to mention way to more pop.

Which is exactly why I said to put in the reserves system on launch, problem solved. We get monthly sub which means good servers and regular updates without Pay 2 Win items, then people who don't want to pay can have a limited experience for free.

moosepoop · 2011-07-11, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by 2coolforu

Clearly you shouldn't be here then, if you don't enjoy the game why are you here?

i enjoy the game and i am gonna be here as long as i like. i just dont like the subscription fee for a shooter. its bizzare.

Originally Posted by 2coolforu

Which is exactly why I said to put in the reserves system on launch, problem solved.

nope. reserves means you can play free indefinitely forever. that doesnt make money. microtransaction is the way.

Sirisian · 2011-07-11, 01:37 PM

When making threads like this please made a poll... It's all fun and games watching this topic get rehashed 100 times with the same arguments, but it's nice to see a definitive poll where people stand.

Originally Posted by moosepoop

subscription will also remove any hope of cross console with the ps3.

Good point. I'm for subscription. Mostly because 15 dollars is nothing to me as an adult now. (oh how the times have changed in these 8 years).