Question I REALLY want answered.

[basti]

Originally Posted by Zulthus

Then at some point, maybe a year or two, EVERYONE will be specialized in everything, and then what? PS1 didn't give you every cert at once, PS2 is.

Err, PS did, its called BR40.

And who said you can do everything perfectly at some point? We dont even know if you can really get all classes to the max. Apperently you can spend all your cert points in every class, but who said that those 20 cert points you get at br 20 is enough to unlock everything in a class? maybe each class has more than just options for 20 points, maybe you could spend 30 or even more?

[2coolforu]

PS only added BR40 right at the end when there were so few people it didn't matter, for the vast majority of the games sucessful life you could cert very little and had to specialize

[Zulthus]

Originally Posted by basti

Err, PS did, its called BR40.

And who said you can do everything perfectly at some point? We dont even know if you can really get all classes to the max. Apperently you can spend all your cert points in every class, but who said that those 20 cert points you get at br 20 is enough to unlock everything in a class? maybe each class has more than just options for 20 points, maybe you could spend 30 or even more?

And BR40 was the biggest mistake to Planetside. (Besides BFRs, which were worse...) Did you see the riot when they found out the "reward"?

[Volw]

Originally Posted by basti

Err, PS did, its called BR40.

And who said you can do everything perfectly at some point? We dont even know if you can really get all classes to the max. Apperently you can spend all your cert points in every class, but who said that those 20 cert points you get at br 20 is enough to unlock everything in a class? maybe each class has more than just options for 20 points, maybe you could spend 30 or even more?

"You're never stuck, capped or locked in to anything with the PS2 cert system. Recerting isn't necessary because there's no restrictions on how many certs you can have trained at a time, just how many you can take advantage of on any given loadout."

So you get to choose which certs you want to 'equip' after unlocking them with BR and after training them.

[2coolforu]

Originally Posted by Volw

So you get to choose which certs you want to 'equip' after unlocking them with BR and after training them.

No, you had a very limited amount of certs that you could use at once. If you wanted you could use them all together but you could never use EVERYTHING at once nor could you TRAIN everything at once. No matter what Battle Rank you were you could use any weapon or train anything, if you wanted to change it was a minimum of 24 hours between changes and you could only change one cert at a time.

It's totally different.

[Volw]

Originally Posted by 2coolforu

No, you had a very limited amount of certs that you could use at once. If you wanted you could use them all together but you could never use EVERYTHING at once nor could you TRAIN everything at once. No matter what Battle Rank you were you could use any weapon or train anything, if you wanted to change it was a minimum of 24 hours between changes and you could only change one cert at a time.

It's totally different.

I'm talking about PS2, Watson.

[Rbstr]

What if skills go up in time/cost exponentially with each additional skill you add.

You have absolute no idea how many skills anyone is going to have at a year, two years, three years into the game. I've played EVE for upwards of 6 years, I sill can't do anything close close to everything, though I have a couple maxed specialisations. There's no reason that wouldn't apply to PS2 in some way.
It's incredibly easy to devise some system of preventing complete specialisation.

[Lunarchild]

Actually, something I find likely is that you have a limited number of slots to place classes in you can swap to, limiting the things you can do at one time. If you want to do something else, you'll need to re-purpose a slot at some terminal, which should take at least a bit of time (5 - 10 minutes).

This will keep people playing a set of roles, which they at times can change. The important part here is: they cannot do it mid-battle. By the time you are done changing your classes, the thing that killed you last has long since left.

[dachlatte]

matt said somewhere you will be BR20 long before you have all the skills trained. how long exactly remains unknown though.

even if it only take 1-2year to unlock everything i dont see it ruining the game.

[BurnZ]

I'd just like to add my two cents on my understanding of the system. Someone correct me if I'm wrong because I would like a more concrete answer as well. I apologize in advance for any stupid typos. I'm on my iPhone and it isn't the most friendly device for forum posting.

From what I have read and seen, my understanding of the system differs from what a few of you have stated. Your idea is that one earned skilled point can be spent in multiple trees which would clearly imply that eventually all the trees would be filled, removing specific roles.

I have taken what has been provided to us differently. I am under the impression that battle ranks grant you the ability to cert into more skills down a tree. So for example, a fifth tier level skill may require battle rank 10. The skill points you use to fill your trees are earned on a times basis.

My understanding is that even though the battle rank cap is 20, which I assume will grant you the ability to put skill points into the highest tier of certs, the skill is, as of yet, undefined. This means you could hypothetically earn let's say 200 skill points.

Most are thinking that if each tree has say 30 certs that we can put our points into then we only need 30 skill points to max every tree as each skill point can be used in each skill tree regardless of the number.

I believe that that isn't the case. I feel that each skill point can only be used in one tree but players will have the ability to earn even skill points to eventually fill every tree. So if you have earned say 45 skill points you can fill the heavy assault tree and have 15 points in the medic tree as well. This is consistent with what an earlier poster stated about a player having x points in heavy assault and y points in medic.

The reason cert or skill resets don't exist is because the potential exists to eventually fill every tree even if that requires 300 skill points which could take years.

This will essentially force players to fill a role, at least initially which is what the majority of us would like to see

Please correct me if I'm wrong but assuming this is how the system works I don't see any issues. Sure people will eventually have the potential for all skills, but that will be a long time from now.

[Brokinarrow]

Originally Posted by BurnZ

I'd just like to add my two cents on my understanding of the system. Someone correct me if I'm wrong because I would like a more concrete answer as well. I apologize in advance for any stupid typos. I'm on my iPhone and it isn't the most friendly device for forum posting.

From what I have read and seen, my understanding of the system differs from what a few of you have stated. Your idea is that one earned skilled point can be spent in multiple trees which would clearly imply that eventually all the trees would be filled, removing specific roles.

I have taken what has been provided to us differently. I am under the impression that battle ranks grant you the ability to cert into more skills down a tree. So for example, a fifth tier level skill may require battle rank 10. The skill points you use to fill your trees are earned on a times basis.

My understanding is that even though the battle rank cap is 20, which I assume will grant you the ability to put skill points into the highest tier of certs, the skill is, as of yet, undefined. This means you could hypothetically earn let's say 200 skill points.

Most are thinking that if each tree has say 30 certs that we can put our points into then we only need 30 skill points to max every tree as each skill point can be used in each skill tree regardless of the number.

I believe that that isn't the case. I feel that each skill point can only be used in one tree but players will have the ability to earn even skill points to eventually fill every tree. So if you have earned say 45 skill points you can fill the heavy assault tree and have 15 points in the medic tree as well. This is consistent with what an earlier poster stated about a player having x points in heavy assault and y points in medic.

The reason cert or skill resets don't exist is because the potential exists to eventually fill every tree even if that requires 300 skill points which could take years.

This will essentially force players to fill a role, at least initially which is what the majority of us would like to see

Please correct me if I'm wrong but assuming this is how the system works I don't see any issues. Sure people will eventually have the potential for all skills, but that will be a long time from now.

This is how I understood it as well. Either way though, I'm not going to dismiss the game before the final product is in my hands and I've had time to play through it. Even if there are things in the beta that we may or may not like, it's a beta for a reason. The things Sony is talking about now may very well be changed or scrapped all together for the final product because they figure out in beta "hey this doesn't work like we thought it would" or "well, it works but no one likes it, so kill it anyway". All of this 'what, why are the doing that for PS2? That's it, I'm not playing!!' is just typical pre-release drama

[Warruz]

This is how i think of it.
Your BR effects how many skills you can have and what kind depending on your class

However you still need to train your skills, in the end all skills will be trained but you have a limited amount available to use depending on your class.

[Hamma]

Matt dropped by and clarified this a bit more today here.

[Chaff]

Appears I'm on the wrong thread, but I wanted to add my 2 cents to something I read the other day.

LOVE Malorn’s post on how the cert tree for the NC Vanguard could look. Very well thought-out….and leads to others being inspired enough to try to take Malorn’s vision to even higher ground.
I always thought the ADV ENG certs left room for a LOT of improvement. Maybe the ADV ENG tree can be tied-into Malorn’s train of thought. I like the idea that ADV ENG are the ones who have to develop the certs to upgrade armor, ammo, primary weapon, secondary weapons(s), speed, maneuverability, reload times, payload, stealth,…..
I LOVED the specialization of PS. I hope PS2 is constructed to build on this while also allowing the gamers to take the action to new heights.
EXAMPLE; only a Vanguard with at least ONE crew member at Max-Cert levels in the Tank Tree would be able to access the Max-upgrades that SUPER ADV ENG could add to tank(s), Lib,……but a Noob could hop into an open seat and get a taste of what ADV CERTs will bring him if he stays with the game – good for gameplay AND SOE.
Guys who take the time to play enough to earn the BEP, BR, points, certs,CR,…..would be rewarded. Put in the time, work as a team, get BEP, advance your certs, and help your empire optimize its technology. I thought that was the essence of PS. In PS2 I’d like to see a SUPER ADV ENG Cert Tree be the mechaism by which some kind of Super-Nano Enhancer installs upgrades to to land or air vehicles. A driver/pilot at the top of that vehicle 's Cert Tree would be the only one cpable of activating the upgrade(s).

On aircraft it could;
Upgrade payload of ammo/bombs, passengers, raise the caliber of ammo in weapons, add speed, improve armor, stealth, upgrade weapon systems, maneuverability,…

Tank would require at least one occupant to be “maxed” in the Tank Cert Tree in order to activate these upgrades (if done to a tank). A group of top-level ADV ENG could add multiple improvements to a Reaver – only a MAX-CERT Reaver pilot could activate the upgrades. This would help build on the camaraderie, cooperation, and specialization so many of us loved in PS.

It might make it harder for an arse-hole personality who is MAXed in his CERT Tree to get the help from others who know he’s an asshat. Yet, who wouldn’t want to ride/gun in a hopped-up vehicle variant ? Keeping specialization at a premium would also help minimize the one-man-army syndrome – which I am for. Outfits & squads that figure out which Cert Tree specializations to integrate into their unit will reap the BEP - and also best benefit the goals and objectives of their empire.

On Vehicles, The NANO-ENHANCER UNIT would:
Upgrade payload of passengers &/or ammo, improve weapons or add special variants such as Malorn touched on in his brilliant Vanguard post. Also, add speed, gunners, armor, raise impact of new specialized ammo…..
Like above, only SUPER AVDV ENG at the highest level would be able to attach the Nano-Enhancer Unit to a land or air vehicle. Each SUPER ADV ENG can add only one Upgrade per vehicle. 3 TOTAL upgrades can be active for any SUPER ADV ENG at a time. A vehicle (land, or air) can have no more than 3 active Nano-Enhancements added. They come with a 5 minute timer.

A SUPER ADV MED Cert Tree toon could peform special upgrades to soldiers - only utilized by a toon who has the relevant Cert Tree completed - to use a specific SUPER ADV MED Upgrade (Implant ?)
The Dev’s of PS2 have quite a challenge. I hope they and SOE remain accessible and open to input from the old players and also to the new ones that come in. I hope SOE gives something extra to the old players that stayed on PS and to those old players that come back to try PS2.

[basti]

Originally Posted by Lunarchild

Actually, something I find likely is that you have a limited number of slots to place classes in you can swap to, limiting the things you can do at one time. If you want to do something else, you'll need to re-purpose a slot at some terminal, which should take at least a bit of time (5 - 10 minutes).

This will keep people playing a set of roles, which they at times can change. The important part here is: they cannot do it mid-battle. By the time you are done changing your classes, the thing that killed you last has long since left.

This is actually a good idea. I fear that people would always just react and get the best gear for killing the most enemys, means if you have a Tank push coming in everyone goes AV.

Limiting your ability to switch classes to just a certain, preset amount would fix that to some degree, while still allowing you to switch classes fast. After all, nobody is going to do everything.