Time-Based experience thoughts - Page 2

Sirisian · 2011-07-14, 01:56 AM

Yeah I'm hoping to only have one character. Matt already mentioned queuing up skills for 24 hours. I don't see it being one of those games where to have everything it takes years. Remember the skill system doesn't have a point other than to keep people subscribed for months (even when they're not playing) so don't think too hard about it.

Not sure if you're familiar with the term "waitplay". It's built into most MMOs, but developers try to keep it very subtle. I'm actually amazed CCP got away with adding that much waitplay into EVE. Normally players get bored and quit. The reward model usually has to be finely tuned like in farmville or tap zoo such that players keep playing and the waitplay delays them just enough between rewards to keep them playing for a much longer period than without the waitplay. Anyway what's I'm getting at is that waitplay like this skill training system is more of a veteran reward system. If you could unlock these skills through playing, like get 200 kill with a suppressor to unlock a scope, the waitplay model could be skewed by good players to break the frequency of rewards. I think they're trying to minimize this by placing physical timers on things.

Sounds good in theory for their business model.

Hamma · 2011-07-14, 09:56 AM

Yea good point above in that you dont *NEED* the skills to drive prowler, they just make you better at it. Wheras in EVE you NEED the skills in order to even get in the cockpit.

WarChimp130 · 2011-07-14, 10:14 AM

I kind of like it, and I'm happy you actually have to play the game to get BR's. Hopefully the combination of the two will make it overall faster than EVE. EVE I felt like I was just playing to log on once in a while and fill up my training queue to get something I really wanted. Of course then you'd have to spend hours flying from system to system to buy all the equipment for that ship also. Such a freaking time sink.

Gandhi · 2011-07-14, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by WarChimp130

I kind of like it, and I'm happy you actually have to play the game to get BR's. Hopefully the combination of the two will make it overall faster than EVE. EVE I felt like I was just playing to log on once in a while and fill up my training queue to get something I really wanted. Of course then you'd have to spend hours flying from system to system to buy all the equipment for that ship also. Such a freaking time sink.

The way I always describe EVE to people now is "90% boring time sink, 10% the best game you'll ever play". For a long time that 10% was worth it for me, but as time goes on that other 90% gets more and more annoying.

basti · 2011-07-14, 11:43 AM

Ah, eve, aye? The skill system is very nice, allows alot of stuff that usual leveling would made impossible, but the combination of both SOE is currently trying with Planetside 2 may actually be the holy grail of gaming. The basic idea is genious, giving benefits of both systems while taking out quite a few disadvantages. If executed well, this could allow for ALOT of stuff that would be impossible with any other leveling system.

As for eve: dont get to crazy about SOE comparing eve and Planetside. They just took the basic idea for gaining certifications, and the easiest way to describe such a system is simply "like eve".

YOu wont need to train 500 days for a skill, and you wont need to get your learnings up before you are even remotly able to do something. You wont be useless in everything until you put a few million skill points, worth several weeks, into something. This is planetside 2, not Eve 2.

Sirisian · 2011-07-14, 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by basti

Ah, eve, aye? The skill system is very nice, allows alot of stuff that usual leveling would made impossible, but the combination of both SOE is currently trying with Planetside 2 may actually be the holy grail of gaming. The basic idea is genious, giving benefits of both systems while taking out quite a few disadvantages. If executed well, this could allow for ALOT of stuff that would be impossible with any other leveling system.

Lost me there. What doors does it open? I think you're overthinking it. It doesn't do anything really other than place delays on skilled players and slow down new players, that are skilled, from nearly instantly surpassing not very good players that have played longer. (Again veteran reward model. Used to keep players for a long time. Not a bad thing, it's just a different game model for keeping subscribers).

The only thing this allows that usual leveling doesn't is that players that don't play the game as much can continue to level as long as they have a subscription. Other than that it doesn't really allow anything that couldn't be given by a simple in game reward model based on kills or actions.

Bags · 2011-07-14, 01:20 PM

Sirisian, you can level faster by getting kills and the like. How does this slow down skilled players?

basti · 2011-07-14, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by Sirisian

Lost me there. What doors does it open? I think you're overthinking it. It doesn't do anything really other than place delays on skilled players and slow down new players, that are skilled, from nearly instantly surpassing not very good players that have played longer. (Again veteran reward model. Used to keep players for a long time. Not a bad thing, it's just a different game model for keeping subscribers).

The only thing this allows that usual leveling doesn't is that players that don't play the game as much can continue to level as long as they have a subscription. Other than that it doesn't really allow anything that couldn't be given by a simple in game reward model based on kills or actions.

They slow down your maximal progress speed, allow the devs to be ahead of the players. That means they could always add new stuff BEFORE every player in the game have already got everything. In other words, there is ALWAYS something you dont have yet, ALWAYS something you can work for, always something you cant wait to get. Eve does that very well. Not a single player has ever managed to be able to do everything. Every eve player always have options what they can do next, what they can work for. Same rules for Planetside 2. YOu always have something you want to train for. Compared to planetside, thats a leap in the right direction. In planetside you reached max level at some point and thats it, your done with getting XP, and the huge personal reward for getting the next level or getting that skill done is just out of the window, and you will never have that again.
Combining that with the "you play, you train faster" concept gives players a real reason to keep fighting. I often enough saw the Planetside icon on my screen and felt like "meh, not today, outfits not on anyway", and then switched to some other MMO because i wanted to get that new stuff.

Combining all that with a class system restricts players in their ability to stack powerfull stuff, allowing the devs to actually add more uniquie stuff, making it special. This way a Medic could get a medic gun that heals everyone close to him, Heavy assault guys could get Heavy assault, and the AV guys could have strong AV, makes your squad of 10 having 2 medics, 6 HA guys and 4 AV guys, opposed to have 10 guys being capable of everything.

Bags · 2011-07-14, 01:44 PM

Why does everyone ignore the fact that actively playing the game levels you faster? It's only slow if you don't play.

ShowNoMercy · 2011-07-14, 02:00 PM

get off the idea guys, its all about money. offline leveling gives people an incentive to keep their accounts active when they dont play much. For example, im in college and when I am taking classes during a semester i generally dont play mmos, thus i cancel my sub and resub during the summer or for a month between semesters. With this system, it is advantageous for me to keep my account subbed so that if and when i do decide to pick it up again I have not wasted 4 months of sub fees. We all want PS2 to succeed so they release more content and the like, keeping that in mind let them incorporate some features for revenue gain. This is a big revenue gainer, and I promise you that we non-casual players will not be affected by this to the extent you are worried about. My only hope is that playing gives rate increases instead of tangible gains. So base your rate increase off your averaged kills per hour or something to that effect. This way there is not so much of a benefit to kill-whoring and some will be more likely to engage in tactical group play even though it is slower pace.

Sirisian · 2011-07-14, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

Why does everyone ignore the fact that actively playing the game levels you faster? It's only slow if you don't play.

We're not ignoring that? I think everyone is well aware of that fact. I don't have a problem with the off-line training system for that very reason. I was just pointing out that the reason the system exists at all is to keep subscribers and do it in a way that won't be annoying to player's that are familiar with EVE.

Originally Posted by basti

They slow down your maximal progress speed, allow the devs to be ahead of the players. That means they could always add new stuff BEFORE every player in the game have already got everything.

Yeah that's the first thing I mentioned in the original thread about this feature. I made a joke in the IRC about how SOE is going to have pictures for you to unlock features that won't even exist in the game for two months.