Question I REALLY want answered. - Page 5

Rbstr · 2011-07-14, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by basti

This is actually a good idea. I fear that people would always just react and get the best gear for killing the most enemys, means if you have a Tank push coming in everyone goes AV.

Because the original system didn't allow for that at all....It was never just as easy as going to a terminal and grabbing an AV gun or saved loadout.

And by never I mean, it happened at day 1.

Volw · 2011-07-14, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by basti

This is actually a good idea. I fear that people would always just react and get the best gear for killing the most enemys, means if you have a Tank push coming in everyone goes AV.

Limiting your ability to switch classes to just a certain, preset amount would fix that to some degree, while still allowing you to switch classes fast. After all, nobody is going to do everything.

That's why you will need tank/air/infantry push to succeed. I'd say it's pretty win and it counters all of the tactics based on pure zerg. (Reaver spam comes to mind)

Tigersmith · 2011-07-14, 02:00 PM

Yea i liked the feeling I was a one man army

But seriously ...this is gonna be kinda strange..

kaffis · 2011-07-14, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by Ranik Ortega

I was under the impression you would still have something like 20-24 Certs to spend between classes. But if I am reading this right that means at any given time you might be a BR 20 Engie / Medic /Light assault / Heavy assault all at the change of a terminal. This seems to go WAAAAAY against any sense of specialization as its all at the drop of a hat if I am correct in this I think THIS will be the most damaging to any sense of specialization in planetside.

Is it just me or does this explanation of classes make less sense than the initial class descriptions?

The way I've read/interpreted talk about the skill tree is that there are hundreds (or I might have even heard *thousands* at one point) of certs, related to upgrades as well as base weapons/vehicles.

So I'm anticipating that the time-unlock training will be accumulating these multitudes of certs, and that you pick up to a couple dozen of them (based on your battle rank) to apply to each class, within class restrictions.

So yeah, I can have *access* to everything after a year of playing. But that doesn't mean that, between all my classes, I've got everything *trained*.

The thing the time unlocking does is it forces you to specialize and focus in that initial year, and I think that's a good concept. Yeah, I can already be BR15, but I've spent all my time unlocking all the goodies in engineer, so my medic role is still a newbie, despite being BR15. Eventually, I'll have spent enough time on the skill tree that I can have a kitted out BR20 engineer AND a kitted out BR20 medic, but each of those are only using 20 of the appropriate certs out of a hundred (for that class), so they're still very different and customized to the way I play engineer and medic.

At least, this is what I'm hoping.

ShowNoMercy · 2011-07-14, 02:24 PM

they added classes and quick switching to appeal to casual plays. Give them a break, you are comparing it to CoD because they are taking ideas from CoD. they want to have the player base CoD and Eve have but without sacrificing what PS is at its core.
One class at a time, but instead of having it certed hours in advance your squad commander will call for switches on the fly, thus decreasing down times and increasing casual player count. The casual players outnumber us, and their money is just as good. So pick your fights carefully, as there are several features being added for the casual player and we as the future vets can only get so much changed.

Volw · 2011-07-14, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by ShowNoMercy

they added classes and quick switching to appeal to casual plays. Give them a break, you are comparing it to CoD because they are taking ideas from CoD. they want to have the player base CoD and Eve have but without sacrificing what PS is at its core.
One class at a time, but instead of having it certed hours in advance your squad commander will call for switches on the fly, thus decreasing down times and increasing casual player count. The casual players outnumber us, and their money is just as good. So pick your fights carefully, as there are several features being added for the casual player and we as the future vets can only get so much changed.

Both were in Tribes 1, back in 98' ... but I guess you are too young to know that.

Ah, almost forgot about Team Fortress for Quake - in 96'

Chaff · 2011-07-14, 06:11 PM

I'm saving up for a new gaming rig, so I'm glad the release of PS2 is not here yet.

I remember earning the right ot choose a "beret", no helmet (OMG), or not. It took all night to clean myself after my bladder exploded from the thrill of it all. There will be new content that older players will have to learn to accept/tolerate/ignore.

.....we will be able to wear "buffs" in PS2 ? whatever. I'd rather be able to play my character in super-agile mode....in the BUFF....maybe just a neon-colored thong and custom body paint with a Burning Man / Greatful Dead kind of theme (which "I" could CUSTOMIZE) ..... and all this Cert Tree would grant me is the ability to bite, claw, scrath, or bitch slap, (and my macros would have a built-in lisp of my choosing).....10 minutes to kill someone AFK....could be part of a Flame Cert Tree....no run mode.....but very fast in "skip" or "skedaddle" mode.....

(may not be my BEST idea, but I'm onto someting)

dachlatte · 2011-07-14, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by Chaff

stuff

they see you trollin, they hatin

MasterChief096 · 2011-07-14, 10:19 PM

Perhaps we will have to cert classes and uncert classes as in PS1.

Theoretically we can advance every class to maximum specialization, but there is a still a 6-12 hour timer between switching classes?

This would make the most sense to me.

Punker · 2011-07-14, 10:45 PM

I'm more interested to know if the whole choose a "class and customize with certs" system means you spawn as that class - or if you spawn in your bday suit like in PS1. I hope it's the latter/

nathanebht · 2011-07-15, 12:39 AM

Had thought I understood certs but think I'll just wait for the expose. They are still iterating.

Higby, "More advanced roles (Such as MAX or Liberator) may require advancement down a specific skill tree to unlock, for instance you may need to spend some time training Heavy Assault to unlock MAX skill trees, that way everyone can't just spawn an untrained powerful vehicle / weapon and still be very powerful with it despite not having any of the bells and whistles unlocked. This is something we're still playing with internally, we're doing a lot of iteration on these systems - when they're totally locked down you guys can expect to see a full expose on them get released."

Chaff · 2011-07-15, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by dachlatte

they see you trollin, they hatin

trollin ? Me ?
nope
....just tryin' to get a feel for peoples sense of humor on these pages. I did leave the game within a year of BFRs arriving.
I don't expect to be "accepted" here after 5 or 6 dumbass posts, but I defintely don't merit a troll reference. People who take cheap shots from behind the safety of their keyboard are bullshiters & cowards by nature.
......if you are directing the troll comment at me......you don't know me yet - until you do, STFU.

2coolforu · 2011-07-15, 10:42 AM

I think the idea is it would take far too long to learn all the certs, similar to how it is in EVE were it would take decades to get every skill

dachlatte · 2011-07-15, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by Chaff

...you don't know me yet - until you do, STFU.

oh a little touchy, are we?

Headrattle · 2011-07-15, 04:50 PM

My problem with the way some of you guys are describing it, is that if all classes are available without a cert, and the game is based on player skill, then how can a entry level guy not be as powerful as someone who has been around for a long time.

But on the flip side...

If there isn't a cert system, and you can't do anything as well as someone who has been playing a while and thus higher skill tree unlock.

Here is my point. With PS1 a BR4 scatter Max is just as powerful (not counting implants) as a BR 20 scatter max. The rest is down to player skill. Now, true, the BR20 Max can ALSO drive a tank, and has access to HA, which the BR4 does not. Essentially the BR20 guy has access to more options. But he doesn't have access to all. Example: In the game today I am a tank driver but I also have a slew of support certs. I was trying to hold a tower. I don't have HA or Max even though I am BR20. There is infantry coming to rehack that tower. I need support, to be a success. I simply won't be able to hold the base from everything that is happening. Now, I could have certs better for that situation and had more success, but I don't. I am primarily a Tank Driver and when I am not driving that, I am helping others. This is the playstyle I enjoy. However, I am unable to handle all situations. Just some. If I had different certs, I would be able to do well at that situation, but not others. You can do a few things, but never everything. The fact that the game is based upon player skill helps this along.

Now you get rid of that. Let's say that in PS2 (assuming we understand this correctly) you can be a Max class. Then switch to a hacker or fly a reaver just by changing classes. One of two things happens.

Back to the tower example:
Either: I can change classes and be able to hold off the other guys because I am an Assault class now. Even though I don't normally play that. And I can have reasonable success because it is a player skill game and not a character skill game. The problem with that is that I can change into any class and have reasonable success with it. So why advance?

Or: I can change classes and still be screwed because I haven't been able to spend time in that class as I need to be competitive. Now the game is much less player skill and much more character skill. Now we are entering MMORPG world.

The reason I say this is because of the following statement from Higby https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DAqjmgQptK1zVwhiWa-6prWH0NlKot3NJo_Umvg8n2g/edit?hl=en_US&pli=1

If you want to put all your advancement time into Reavers you can do that, and you'll have a more maneuverable, durable and powerful vehicle with plenty of options for secondary weapons and fun gadgets.

So... higher "advancement time" now has much clearer benefits that mean that the new guys aren't able to compete nearly as well. If you think that Planetside is bad now! Wait till you are a new guy and a very advanced reaver pilot is attacking your reaver and he has a "more maneuverable, durable and powerful vehicle with plenty of options for secondary weapons and fun gadgets" while you just have your silly reaver. This seems to fly in the face of other things they have said.

In other words, it is very confusing how they will be able to do both. Planetside BR unlocks one thing. Options. Not damage. Not maneuverablity, not durability. You have more options. And it does this well because as you increase in your ability with your current certs, you can pick up more. You can complain that the BR20 guys can sneak into a base, hack a terminal, and then have a terminal and hack out a Max. Fine, but that means he spent 10 points to do this. If you can switch to anything on the fly that means that stuff like that (not exactly like that of course) will be worse.

Just the way I see it. I really want PS2 to succeed (now that the kids are autonomous and can get their own damn food while daddy plays!) and I am afraid that this will make it very unfun. There are ideas I like, but there are ideas that I fear for.

Edit: Apparently there isn't going to be an inventory. So classes will really be classes. Which sounds like a lot of other games out there. Not a fan of the classes in general. But I will see how this goes.