Sense of Accomplishment

[Bags]

Originally Posted by Zulthus

Merits and achievements in no way detract from any game..

I guess you've never played WoW or TF2.

[Malorn]

Originally Posted by Zulthus

Merits and achievements in no way detract from any game. They simply let you know you're doing a good job.

I've seen a lot of idiots in games running around going for achievements. Nothing quite as dumb as having a couple guys running around on your team only knifing people so they can get their knife-platinum merit. Or using their pistol when they should be using their assault rifle simply so they can get their pistol merits. Or they bypass all teamwork and make suicide runs at objectives so they can be the ones to tag them for their merit.

Achievements just encourage people to do dumb things. Some achievements are OK, but the kind like "Kill x players with y weapon" only encourage people to be inefficient and detracts from teamwork.

This man said it best:

Thats all you need for a sense of accomplishment, actually accomplishing something.

[DreaM]

Originally Posted by Bags

I guess you've never played WoW or TF2.

Provided the achievements encourage normal game-play there is nothing wrong with it. I really like the merit system PS1 has.

[Zulthus]

I don't see the whole problem with using x weapon to get y amount of kills. Not sure how it's regarded as "inefficient". Not everyone is going to have their knife out 24/7 doing their own thing, so I don't see how it detracts from teamwork if you just want to have fun with the game you pay for. There's thousands of other linear players who don't do that stuff, so it'll be fine if there are merits/achievements.

[Zulthus]

Originally Posted by Bags

I guess you've never played WoW or TF2.

I made the mistake of playing WoW for a while. WoW is a completely different game from Planetside and has absolutely no relevance to the current thread. It doesn't involve hundreds/thousands of players all using teamwork to capture an objective.

TF2, played it once, crap game, also nothing like Planetside

[Bags]

Originally Posted by Zulthus

I made the mistake of playing WoW for a while. WoW is a completely different game from Planetside and has absolutely no relevance to the current thread. It doesn't involve hundreds/thousands of players all using teamwork to capture an objective.

TF2, played it once, crap game, also nothing like Planetside

My point is that achievements discourage efficiently completing objectives. They always do. It's a moot comparison if you haven't played either game though, as you won't understand.

[Malorn]

Originally Posted by Zulthus

I don't see the whole problem with using x weapon to get y amount of kills. Not sure how it's regarded as "inefficient". Not everyone is going to have their knife out 24/7 doing their own thing, so I don't see how it detracts from teamwork if you just want to have fun with the game you pay for. There's thousands of other linear players who don't do that stuff, so it'll be fine if there are merits/achievements.

Its fine for people to do their own thing, but the game shouldn't encourage stupidity and things that detract from teamwork. If people want to do that anyway, great. The game shouldn't encourage it.

[Tatwi]

Originally Posted by dachlatte

the problem with those "goals" is that players will do anything to achieve them. they will get fixated on them and they dont waste a second to think about the other players(enemys and allies).
why, you might ask. because the games says so. ultimately that leads to retarded gameplay like we see with the gen killing today. it ruins the fun for both empires involved. why? because the game says its all about waiting 15mins to cap a base.

Absolutely. The battleground achievements sure did that in World of Warcraft for the first few months after they were introduced. Yet these same people would report others as being AFK for doing the quests in Alterac Valley, because they would rather zerg the NPC boss than complete the PvPvE objectives and actually play the map...

Seems to always be lose, lose with this kinds of things, despite the best of intentions that the developers may have had and (as with the case of AV in WoW) the really cool events that can be created when people play the game as intended.

[Zulthus]

Originally Posted by Bags

My point is that achievements discourage efficiently completing objectives. They always do. It's a moot comparison if you haven't played either game though, as you won't understand.

Well, since I said I played both, it's not moot.

How does "pick up enemy weapons and kill 5 players with them" discourage efficiently completing objectives? You haven't even given an argument other than saying "Achievements discourage efficiently completing objectives. They always do."

All I'm saying is a return of the PlanetSide 1 merit system would be great. I liked being able to display some of my decorations of what I'm good at.

[Tatwi]

Originally Posted by Zulthus

I made the mistake of playing WoW for a while. WoW is a completely different game from Planetside and has absolutely no relevance to the current thread. It doesn't involve hundreds/thousands of players all using teamwork to capture an objective.

TF2, played it once, crap game, also nothing like Planetside

WoW has 40 vs 40 maps with co-op objectives, plus many other large scale PvP types, including "world PvP" that grants zone wide benifits (like 5% more XP) which could have thousands of players in a battle. However, no one does this, even though the game has millions of players world wide from all walks of life, which probably means something.

Wintergrasp used to have hundreds of players per battle until Blizzard decided to throttle it for performance reasons. Unlike a simplified combat game such as Planetside, WoW simply has way too many spells, procs, dots, movement vectors, and other things to process for that many players simaltaniously. That's not a knock to Planetside, just pointing out that Planetside has more optimized, simplified player interactions that translates into being able to support more players per zone than WoW. Even the EQII team had to scale back on the amount item procs in the game, because they were beging to effect the server performance in raids, which also helps to clarify the difference between Planetside's combat "logic/math" and other games that have more abilities/spells/items firing in a battle.

None the less, I see that it's cool to hate RPGs in the Planetside community, just like hating WoW was always the cool thing to do in Everquest II & Star Wars Galaxies, so I most likely just wasted my time explaining this...

[Maverick]

I think a stamp of accomplishment or “achievement” is just one idea available. I can say it’s not enough for me personally unless it was for something truly prestigious. Personal achievements based in little things like number of knife kills or base hacks mean little to me. A driving achievement for me would be company or multi-company magnitude challenges such as capturing a capital fortress that is almost never taken. But I’m only one of a sea of many.

Remember the intent was to hear ideas about how to appeal to the different kinds of motivations different players have simultaneously, to win their continued subscription of PS2 through the years to come.

What other ideas can you guys think of whether it be a challenge, reward, or other?

[Zulthus]

I really liked BF2's ribbon/medal system. It didn't so much make you try to get them as it did pat you on the back when you were doing a good job. It felt really good to see those awards pop up and the music start playing.

[exLupo]

I'm sure there will be some kind of cheevos and flair rewards. It's so common anymore. Hopefully things will stay serious and in line with the PlanetSide aesthetic. That kind of thing is part of what keeps a segment of players active in repetitive games. It increases the market appeal but, if they don't screw up the lore feel, doesn't detract from the play experience of those who dgaf.

However, I will say that Bags put it best.

Originally Posted by Bags

Getting the kill, cap, or cont lock is all the sense of accomplishment I need.

When home for lunch, I'd make a sandwich while logging in and spend a few minutes just trying to get one good, long range snipe. Not a huge goal but satisfying.

"There is no better cause to fight than the simple need that blood be spilled. Do not fight because you receive reward or praise. Fight because that other bastard exists solely to die at the end of your blade."

[cashfoyogash]

Originally Posted by Bags

Getting the kill, cap, or cont lock is all the sense of accomplishment I need. Merits and achievements are meaningless fluff that detract from a shooter, which should primarily be about shooting people. Not collecting every shiny.

Not true I think halo xbox live achievements are awesome. Like capture the flag in a ctf match or get a double kill with the shotgun.... i like the idea of achievements.

Originally Posted by exLupo

"There is no better cause to fight than the simple need that blood be spilled. Do not fight because you receive reward or praise. Fight because that other bastard exists solely to die at the end of your blade."

Eh, spartacus quote?

[InternetZombie]

The thing with Planetside is it really shows how redundant gaming is. WoW's battlegrounds and even the "world" PVP are the same, your always fighting over the same thing, even if you win it has no effect on anything. This is the same as Planetside, the only difference is that in Planetside it's not instanced.

There isn't a game out there that isn't redundant.
Achievements are a gimick only ment to keep people from realizing that the game there playing is redundant.

What happens once you have all the achievements? Will you keep playing the game once there all gone? If you wont stick around and play the game for the game, it isn't likely you'll stick around once all the achievements have been earned.

Earning things is great if there meaningful.

My sense of accomplishment comes from seeing my side winning, even if I'm doing horribly there is always something I can do to help out. It's a team effort, that being said what happens when you get something for killing X soldiers in a row without dying but I get squat and the only reason you were able to kill X soldiers in a row is because I was healing you?