Gillie Suit - Page 3

FriendlyFire · 2011-08-09, 02:51 PM

I am one of the players that will be advancing down the Sniping/Scouting trees. In PS snipers were just for farming other snipers and stalemates, but PS2 could evolve that role. Adding the Gillie suit or other ideas to support a slow moving, tactical, infantry unit, could be interesting/fun.

WarChimp130 · 2011-08-09, 04:15 PM

The same way people say too many people will cert to be commanders, I can see way too many people certing to become Snipers.

Sirisian · 2011-08-09, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by WarChimp130

The same way people say too many people will cert to be commanders, I can see way too many people certing to become Snipers.

I personally won't be certing toward sniper. I just want all the classes to be full of epic choices and strategies. So if you see something overpowered about having a gillie suit then explain why? Engineers are probably going to be seeing a lot of deployables and the same point could be made to them. The idea is to make each class a specialized play style with many choices.

Also the game is 50% indoor and 50% outdoor (roughly Higby said since that may change). So yeah if you only see your class useful in 50% of the fights then it begins to make sense. Same idea with specializing in vehicles or indoor close range combat. Lot of choices for different areas to fight in. Imagine a forest or somewhere where a cloaker or player could sneak up on a sniper also. Higby already mentioned diverse terrain. Assuming that a sniper would be good everywhere is kind of naive. That and where there are snipers there are cloakers and mosquitoes to farm them. It's like a deer wolf population.

Sovereign · 2011-08-09, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

So you don't want an infiltration suit; you want a crappy infiltration suit?

Apples and oranges.

Gillies as much as I lavish them so in BF2 just to me wouldn't fit in sci-fi setting like this where you have the ultimate adaptive camouflage that cloaks you from any form of distinguishable visibility.

Not to mention like stated 50% outdoor and 50% indoor whereas Gillie suit is employed solely for outdoor cover thus it defeats the entire purpose of creation of naturalistic cover based Gillie suit. Stealth suits just make more sense for a game like this and defeats the purpose of the obsolete covert wear of our time.

cashfoyogash · 2011-08-10, 12:04 AM

COD MW2 had an awesome ghillie suit (thats how it is actually spelled) system. First off the suits themselves were awesome they blended in perfect with the terrain. They also made it so you had to have so many one shot kills to unlock each one. For example 250 one shot kills for the woodland 500 for urban 750 for desert and 1000 for snow. This is not exact but that is how they set it up.

I think snipers should have a ghillie suit, first off that is what makes a sniper. It enables him to patiently work his way into enemy territory for whatever his mission is. The sniper is stealth, your not suppose to know a sniper was there until he has already shot his mark. I would love to see SOE incorporate Ghillie suits for snipers which could be basically a no armor or very low armor hp that will blend in well with the surroundings. Basically a shitty infiltrator suit. Not completely invisible at all and no phase technology stuff. It could have one large weapon slot a pistol slot and a knife slot. A fairly decent sized pack also maybe 25 or 50 armor hp compared to how PS1 has the armor set up. So you dont have snipers in rexo armor either if they have a ghillie suit but they do get a suit that would blend in with surroundings much like COD MW2 did it. Now SOE could just make a few suits that blend in with the typical surroundings in the game and it would be up to the sniper to pick which one to use.

Huma · 2011-08-10, 06:14 AM

Originally Posted by Trolltaxi

If you want to focus on the scout role of a sniper and enhance it's options, just think about an infil standing still on a hill 150 meters away from the base. There you have the perfect scout.

I don't see why anyone would like to add a stealth suit with a sniper slot... Oh wait, the dream of the 'infil with a large slot' would come true.

If you want scouting, do it in an infil suit! Maybe the CUD could work both ways and you could upload numbers or other tactical data. If you want to surpress a base or just an entry, you don't need the ghillie at all.

The camo with the changing pattern sounds cool though, but I'd say it would be an enhancement for everyone and every armour (and skill points wasted on that, the more skill point invested, the camo effect would grow and/or adjustment time would shrink).

An infiltrator has very limited zoom. Unless they plan on putting in bins they need to get right on top of the target. A scout snipers role is to stand off from a target area to gather intel and eliminate high value targets. A scout sniper can stay operational longer than a cloaker can.
I don't know why everyone is all up in arms about sniper head shots. There are already a lot of things out there that are a potential instagib. Besides it's not going to be easy to get those head shots. With actual bullet physics in place you are far more likely to get hit in the body or missed all together.
Besides if you die that one time what happens? Air is called in to find the sniper and every cloaker in the area makes a bee lime for the guy. Giving a sniper armor that adapts to help them blend in a little better isn't going to over power them. Everyone just needs to calm down and just figure out how to handle snipers effectively.

Elude · 2011-08-10, 06:32 AM

People are not afraid of one or two snipers, but several dozens of snipers.

I'm not completely against the idea of a camo upgrade for snipers, I think that's cool, but I do see why people are afraid of having one. Imagine for a moment that there were 30 snipers on one side with such camo that they were nearly impossible to eradicate thanks to squad spawning and advanced camouflage.

One might say "well how would they handle tanks or aircraft", well they don't need to if they simply can't be killed by them. This goes for infiltration suits as well, the only way to eliminate problems like this in the game would be to disallow the use of squad spawning on snipers or infiltration players, and only allow it on a very specific type of class that the squad leader must be, it's that or remove squad spawning.

exLupo · 2011-08-10, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by Elude

impossible to eradicate thanks to squad spawning and advanced camouflage.

One might say "well how would they handle tanks or aircraft", well they don't need to if they simply can't be killed by them.

Squad spawning will be outdoor only and be done via drop pod. If you have found them (spawning implies you have and are firing back) and are having trouble killing them off, have your air strafe the place with the pods dropping out of the sky. If they're in a cave that you can't get air to, use any kind of transport to get troops near their hole, walk in and spray them with bullets. Snipers are best used small groups (1-3) not in clusters because that attracts massed attention (see: OS on sniper hills in PS1). The best snipers are both accurate and mobile and a whole squad, while scary for a few minutes, will get wiped out if they prove to be a threat.

People are afraid of dozens of snipers but people are often afraid of what may be without considering what realistically will be. Playing "what if" is fine but you have to remember you're just playing and it can only go so far.

Atuday · 2011-08-10, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by Huma

That's because snipers never really had a role in PS1. Considering the scale of combat and the size of the battlefield in PS2 snipers will fill the same role they have IRL. Provide intel, eliminate high value targets, and spread general confusion. Everyones role will be recognizable by jus looking at them so why not give snipers their signature suit? It's never been OP in any other FPS and I don't see it being OP in this one.
Besides it would really only allow them to move into and out of sniper nests without being detected. It's not like I'm saying they should be invisible.

Calling BS on this. Sorry Huma but I have to.

Snipers in PS1 had a huge combat role. A good 2 man sniper team on voice comms to select targets could take out any infantry in any outdoor area once they where in position. One shot to weaken one shot to kill. With a single friend we broke the defense of an entire base in PS1 in under 15 mins. The amount of effort needed to take out a good sniper team is roughly 4 times the amount of effort the snipers need to ruin a base defense. Does this mean they are OP, no. Does this mean they have the roles of diverting enemies, forcing people into cover, and giving intel to the other attackers? Yes.

Atuday · 2011-08-10, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Elude

People are not afraid of one or two snipers, but several dozens of snipers.

I'm not completely against the idea of a camo upgrade for snipers, I think that's cool, but I do see why people are afraid of having one. Imagine for a moment that there were 30 snipers on one side with such camo that they were nearly impossible to eradicate thanks to squad spawning and advanced camouflage.

I agree with Elude on this. One sniper in a suit is not too bad but 50 would ruin a fight. I see no reason why a sniper in a game like planetside 2 would ever need such a stealth suit. As for hiding from air strikes you don't even need camo if you have an ams or other cloak bubble system.

Some one mentioned that the reason Cloakers would not work for long range scouting is due to the lack of zoom but there is an implant for that in planetside and I don't see why there would not be something like it in planetside 2.

Sirisian · 2011-08-10, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by Atuday

I agree with Elude on this. One sniper in a suit is not too bad but 50 would ruin a fight. I see no reason why a sniper in a game like planetside 2 would ever need such a stealth suit. As for hiding from air strikes you don't even need camo if you have an ams or other cloak bubble system.

Same way 50 of anything would ruin a fight? 50 lightnings? I don't follow your logic at all. It seems people have created a theoretical world where everyone is a sniper. I don't see how that jump was made.

Imagine having 50 cloakers and everyone was invisible. That would ruin the game. You can't put cloaking in.

If we still have that long tracer round that points out a sniper's position I don't see that much of a problem. I feel bad for higby mentioning the 20% improvement thing though since judging ideas like this or any of the many other ones is very hard to put a percentage to it. It's specialization, but most people don't view it that way.

Originally Posted by Trolltaxi

I don't see why anyone would like to add a stealth suit with a sniper slot... Oh wait, the dream of the 'infil with a large slot' would come true.

Regarding this I don't think anyone suggested an invisibility for close range. That would overlap the infiltrator's job. It was more as "hey you're too far away so to make this work without allowing obvious cheating the player fades out after a certain distance when not moving".

Trolltaxi · 2011-08-10, 03:24 PM

50 invisible snipers on a hill (illuminating the hillside with every tracer shots they fire) cry for a mass carpet bombing or a heavy artillery strike!

"A bullet may have your name on it but artillery is addressed to all whom it may concern."

Elude · 2011-08-10, 04:20 PM

I am not against camouflaged snipers as I mentioned before, I am against squad leaders having the capability of being one, a squad leader should be it's very own class.

Originally Posted by Sirisian

Same way 50 of anything would ruin a fight? 50 lightnings? I don't follow your logic at all. It seems people have created a theoretical world where everyone is a sniper. I don't see how that jump was made.

Imagine having 50 cloakers and everyone was invisible. That would ruin the game. You can't put cloaking in.

The goal is to eliminate the squad leaders to stop their team mates from spawning on them, if they were in 50 lightning tanks then you could clearly see who was a squad leader, and who wasn't. It's not like their team mates are going to spawn on them with additional tanks of their own.

I was never exclusively selecting the sniper class as the only class you could pull off such madness, I in fact mentioned the infiltration class along with it because these are the two that would be the most difficult to spot.

Here's an example for you for better understanding. Take 50 players with incredibly bright green suits covering them head to toe and send them into battle all looking alike, chances are the enemy team will have some difficulty picking out who is a squad leader but at the rate they sight, and kill each bright green player would make it fairly difficult for squad leaders to survive or anyone on that side for that matter. Just imagine being one of these bright green players waiting to spawn on your leader, watching the timer count down, each second is a second your leader is being seen, and a chance of his death.

If you take this same setup and apply it backwards by making everyone extremely difficult to see then you end up with a squad leader with a longer life span thus giving the team members of that squad a better chance of spawning.

I thought this was clear enough in my first post.

exLupo · 2011-08-11, 05:10 AM

I get what you're saying but I don't see the same problem you do. Especially if you add in the suggestion to have ghillie's efficacy being range based. If they lose cloak on move or within X meters then the same application for aircraft or dropped boots we use today will fix the problem. Artillery doesn't care about the cloak at all. There's even the potential for a high tree unlock that lets sniper scopes see through each other's cloak so counter-sniping is not only viable but critical.

The only way you could possibly get an "unlimited" drop loop is if you had a pure infil sitting up there, doing nothing and even then if one of the responders has DL (assuming all things are the same) then the infil isn't long for this world. Frankly, there's nothing new to fear regarding unlimited spawns from a cloaked unit. Why? Because the AMS already does that without drop pods pointing out the location. Heck, have an a.med infil hang out and you've got the same scenario but, again, without drop pods.

I think everything is covered.
Cloaked squad leader? Home in on pods and clean them out via air, boot or arty.
Difficulty in finding unit? Back track tracers (if they exist, hope not) or some other solution we don't currently know about.

Don't be afraid of 50 partially invisible snipers. If they're defending an approach outside the base, secure the siege perimeter area by area. If they're attacking then the cy is limited to vehicles and maxes (you can snipe a max but it takes time) but with air and vehicles dominating, that's not a big change.

And, like in every other game. It doesn't matter how scary a sniper is, they still aren't capping objectives. Snipers can be great for suppression and taking out key units (medics, SLs, manned guns) but they have zero ability to actually finish an offense.

Elude · 2011-08-11, 05:50 AM

My main fear is the ability for squad leaders to stay unnoticed, not particularly a mass of one class.

As you mentioned, the AMS already does this, but take into account that there will be several dozens of squad leaders around rather then a few AMS's, also take into account that unlike an AMS, a squad leader is constantly mobile, and can hide much easier.

If a squad leader has the ability to cloak he could simply hide in the trees or behind a wall or over a hill, never once having to fight or even look at the enemy. While extremely boring for the squad leader, it would become extremely annoying for the enemy team.

Of course we wont see this shit going down at launch anyway considering squad spawning will be an upgrade. This is really for another thread but all I'm asking is for a squad leader specific class, a class so recognizable on the field that he would be in constant fire, and would require his team to heavily look out after him for their own sake.