Sniper round scaling effectiveness. - Page 3

CutterJohn · 2011-08-10, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by exLupo

Regardless of implementation, I'm pretty sure that this is a good example of what most (all?) of us wants to make sure isn't a remotely viable tactic in PS2.quickscope montage

You want to make sure that people don't run around with a sniper rifle that has one shot body shots at <10m(<20m for m95s)? Good. Me either.

The vast majority of those kills are not head shots, and BFBC2 sniper rifles have zero cone of fire when zoomed in, regardless of motion. This video would be impossible in a PS2 with head shots. Problem solved.

Originally Posted by Kechiro

Could you imagine having an MCG on every TR infantry when all they have to do is aim above your waist, spray away and just let a single round hit you in the face? OP'd much?

Yes, that would suck, and the devs know that would suck and they very specifically pointed out that weapons would have different multipliers for head shots, and high rof spam weapons would not get those bonuses.

**Malorn** · 2011-08-10, 07:02 PM

What was wrong with the bolt driver? It killed in two hits and in PS2 there will be location-based damage. So why are you proposing this? What problem is it solving?

Kechiro · 2011-08-10, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

Yes, that would suck, and the devs know that would suck and they very specifically pointed out that weapons would have different multipliers for head shots, and high rof spam weapons would not get those bonuses.

I think I missed this and someone said it in an earlier post on this thread also. I'm relieve to read this, although I was pretty sure they wouldn't give them to spammables anyway. It would just be chaos on the forums and subs would drop left and right.

As for Snipers, I honestly I don't think there is anything wrong with the way it is in PS1. But as I said before I would love to waltz around with my sniper rifle and OSOK people. I just would like it to be balanced. You don't see a lot of snipers in PS1 nowadays, especially good ones.

I consider myself above average, personally. Not great, but better than your average Joe; and I would prefer that they balance sniper rifles out so that the game doesn't turn into a Sniperside.

CutterJohn · 2011-08-10, 07:25 PM

If it does I'll just turn into a tank and mow you over. Or a MAX. Or an aircraft. Or fight in bases. Or in forests.

There is going to be quite enough other things going on that I don't fear everyone taking sniper. Infantry are far from the biggest threat outdoors, and the areas they are a major threat in are areas with a ton of cover.

exLupo · 2011-08-11, 05:24 AM

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

You want to make sure that people don't run around with a sniper rifle that has one shot body shots at <10m(<20m for m95s)? Good. Me either.

The vast majority of those kills are not head shots, and BFBC2 sniper rifles have zero cone of fire when zoomed in, regardless of motion. This video would be impossible in a PS2 with head shots. Problem solved.

That's a given. One hit meatshots should be out on anything, infils included. I just rewatched the video, looking for the headshot bonus xp. A lot were close but the percentage of actual headshots was pretty low. Meatshot montage. Frankly, that makes the sniper rifle balance question in BFBC2 even more questionable.

That being said.

I don't care how good someone is or how well weapons X, Y and Z do at zero range, I don't feel that sniper rifles should ever be reliable as close range engagement weapons. Dev needs to, as with all things, pick a niche and mold the tools to the job. If they are surprisingly excellent in an unintended area, hammer that nail back into place.

Sirisian · 2011-08-11, 12:28 PM

If snipers could switch to a pistol fairly quickly this might help make the argument.

EASyEightyEight · 2011-08-11, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by Sirisian

If snipers could switch to a pistol fairly quickly this might help make the argument.

Correction: everyone should be able to

Might have to make it a skill for handguns though, just to reward people going that route.

exLupo · 2011-08-12, 12:35 AM

Quick switch weapons or skills/mods (MAG, Brink) help take the sting out of otherwise hampered specialist weapon loadouts. I'd be down.

Talek Krell · 2011-08-12, 04:00 AM

Maybe there could be some pistol skills in the sniper tree that would improve their effectiveness with them. Assuming that's at all how the skill training works.

exLupo · 2011-08-12, 04:16 AM

Originally Posted by Talek Krell

Maybe there could be some pistol skills in the sniper tree that would improve their effectiveness with them. Assuming that's at all how the skill training works.

Could be sniper specific quick-swap skills but I imagine it'd be more of a pistol specific bonus that'd be useful to anyone. Every role will probably have a pistol as backup.

Captain1nsaneo · 2011-08-12, 10:02 PM

I got a guy up to ~25 with pretty much just sniping. I don't like using a pistol as I need both slots of heal and rep. It's a lot more risk/reward going against HA and MA at close ranges using boltdrivers. I'd really prefer if they kept the 2 hit kill for close range with the bolt drivers, heck, they could make headshots not count or do a bit less damage at point black by just explaining that the rounds have a triggering distance like m209s and RPGs. That would deter people using them for insta-gibs.

Peacemaker · 2011-08-13, 02:03 AM

Agreed. Rocket assisted projectile, would be a good explination. Does not accelerate untill 75 meters.

CutterJohn · 2011-08-13, 03:15 AM

Originally Posted by exLupo

I don't care how good someone is or how well weapons X, Y and Z do at zero range, I don't feel that sniper rifles should ever be reliable as close range engagement weapons. Dev needs to, as with all things, pick a niche and mold the tools to the job. If they are surprisingly excellent in an unintended area, hammer that nail back into place.

Snipers aren't reliable as close range engagement weapons. If you play BFBC2 you see most snipers running around with the pistol when forced into short range, since its a more reliable CQC weapon, even though the sniper one hits at close range. If they are intending to play a close range support role with their squad, or are on a small map, they run with the semi/full auto rifles, or the 'standard' weapons anyone can pick.

exLupo · 2011-08-13, 04:50 AM

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

Snipers aren't reliable as close range engagement weapons.

They aren't normally but that doesn't mean they aren't ever. I think steps should be taken to make sure the latter is the case.

Is it common to have someone using a sniper as a CQ shotgun and surviving? No.
Can some players pull it off? Yes.
Should they be able to? Imo, no.

Balance needs to take into account both the most common situations as well as the most extreme. If there's an advantageous design flaw, players will milk it.

CutterJohn · 2011-08-13, 06:42 AM

Originally Posted by exLupo

They aren't normally but that doesn't mean they aren't ever. I think steps should be taken to make sure the latter is the case.

Is it common to have someone using a sniper as a CQ shotgun and surviving? No.
Can some players pull it off? Yes.
Should they be able to? Imo, no.

Balance needs to take into account both the most common situations as well as the most extreme. If there's an advantageous design flaw, players will milk it.

I could see adjusting it if it becomes a defacto shotgun that is commonly used for an unintended role to the point normal shotguns aren't even considered. I have no issues with the guy with the sniper rifle coming out on top every so often due to skill or luck.

Design flaws are only flaws if they are terrible for gameplay. Fix it if its terrible. Prefixing it in case it might be terrible is the wrong way to go about it.