Is anyone else concerned about the proposed “faster pace” of combat? - Page 12

Bags · 2011-10-11, 12:58 PM

HA does have a draw back. It's the most expensive single cert in the game.

Xyntech · 2011-10-11, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

HA does have a draw back. It's the most expensive single cert in the game.

That's a weak draw back. That is BFR and CR5 Orbital Strike balancing logic.

Things in an FPS should first be balanced against every other item and only after that should they have an appropriate price tag put on them. This is even more true in Planetside 2 considering that, as far as we know, everyone will have access to (more or less) everything, all the time once they earn or purchase them.

I agree that HA is cool, but every weapon should be cool. Pistols are fucking stupid in Planetside, although that did make it a lot cooler to get kills with them. I'd like every grenade to have common situations where it makes me feel like a badass, not just jammers. I'd like pistols to be a viable option for non infiltrators if they happen to have their main slots filled by non AI weapons.

I'd just like to see more of the weapons more useful in more situations. Some guns should always be better in certain situations, I just don't want it to feel like the only viable choice. HA surgile was the combo of choice for a while, and then HA/rexo/personal shield. I'd like the balance to be such that there is a little more flexibility, where there isn't some common knowledge best combo. Maybe players would know that they'd be as good as dead if they didn't have a couple MAXes or HA rexos in their squad when they enter a base, but ideally they would also want a rifleman or two as well if the game made such mixed units valuable. Planetsides way of 20 vs 20 with at least 30 HA weapons between them is boring and repetitive.

I'd like to go into a base and see a half dozen enemies, all with HA and think "shit, you don't see that every day" and have to think fast to counter them with something else, maybe some grenades if they move slowly when firing. That many people with HA should be unusual, scary and, most importantly, extremely vulnerable to a lot of things.

That's my personal preference of course. It's probably a little early to be getting so specific about points of balance that we know so little about for PS2. Some of the new pacing and TTK's may completely change my outlook.

Bags · 2011-10-11, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by Xyntech

That's a weak draw back. That is BFR and CR5 Orbital Strike balancing logic.

Never heard anyone whine about OS being OP.

I agree that HA is cool, but every weapon should be cool. Pistols are fucking stupid in Planetside, although that did make it a lot cooler to get kills with them. I'd like every grenade to have common situations where it makes me feel like a badass, not just jammers. I'd like pistols to be a viable option for non infiltrators if they happen to have their main slots filled by non AI weapons.

I never said pistols shouldn't be "Cool". Grenades are good enough in PS1, IMO.

I'd just like to see more of the weapons more useful in more situations. Some guns should always be better in certain situations, I just don't want it to feel like the only viable choice. I'd like the balance to be such that there is a little more flexibility, where there isn't some common knowledge best combo. Maybe players would know that they'd be as good as dead if they didn't have a couple MAXes or HA rexos in their squad when they enter a base, but ideally they would also want a rifleman or two as well if the game made such mixed units valuable. Planetsides way of 20 vs 20 with at least 30 HA weapons between them is boring and repetitive.

Heavy assault is not the only viable weapon indoors. Rifles see plenty of use indoors.

I'd like to go into a base and see a half dozen enemies, all with HA and think "shit, you don't see that every day" and have to think fast to counter them with something else, maybe some grenades if they move slowly when firing. That many people with HA should be unusual, scary and, most importantly, extremely vulnerable to a lot of things.

Grenades work fine right now.

Nerf snipers because I can't kill them with heavy assault.

Crator · 2011-10-11, 03:10 PM

I don't think OS is OP, when limited in it's use. But when every player has OS on the same continent it gets pretty ridiculous. Especially with the low pop situations we have now in PS1.

Xyntech · 2011-10-11, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

Nerf snipers because I can't kill them with heavy assault.

Yes, because snipers should totally pwn indoors and HA should be mowing down the enemy half way across the continent

I want more variety in PS2 CQC, that's all. A little more of that rock paper scissors that we all seem to enjoy so much about the outdoor combat.

There are other viable weapons indoors in PS1, but they are by far the exception. HA shouldn't be so far and away superior that it's the majority of what you see.

I don't want HA to become stupid or useless or lose any of it's wow factor. Actually I wouldn't mind seeing HA kicked up a few notches, being even more intimidating to go up against, as long as it had enough significant draw backs to make it not be the only option in most players minds for indoor fighting.

I haven't been playing Planetside for as long as you though. Maybe that means I don't have as much of a say. As the populations dwindled, so did my interest in the game. The big battles were Planetsides main draw for me, but a lot of the other game mechanics left something to be desired.

I didn't mind some of the things as much at the time, but I think PS2 can be so much better now. I'd like to see a lot of things improved, some of which a lot of veterans will argue aren't broken and don't need fixing. I disagree. I'm not saying change everything just for the sake of change, just maybe tweak a few things here and there.

It doesn't need to be broken to have room for improvement.

Don't reinvent the wheel, but maybe give it a better tire.

SKYeXile · 2011-10-11, 05:22 PM

HA maybe the most used thing indoors, for soloing 3 or more people at once there is nothing better....except say a MAX...and none of the muppets have AV...lawls. but combinded arms will always triump.

MAX leading to get enimies to draw AV, REXO HA behind, to push past the maxes when AV is drawn , thumpers behind them to provide preasure and any MA in the back. throw an AV max in there to counter any AI maxes..and win.

SgtMAD · 2011-10-11, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

HA maybe the most used thing indoors, for soloing 3 or more people at once there is nothing better....except say a MAX...and none of the muppets have AV...lawls. but combinded arms will always triump.

MAX leading to get enimies to draw AV, REXO HA behind, to push past the maxes when AV is drawn , thumpers behind them to provide preasure and any MA in the back. throw an AV max in there to counter any AI maxes..and win.

the smartest thing I have ever seen posted on these forums,its why Dreamer always told me to pull my max LOL

SKYeXile · 2011-10-11, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by HtSgtMAD

the smartest thing I have ever seen posted on these forums,its why Dreamer always told me to pull my max LOL

Your strat is probably better....EQUAL THEIR NUMBERS IN MAXES! :P

Xyntech · 2011-10-11, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

HA maybe the most used thing indoors, for soloing 3 or more people at once there is nothing better....except say a MAX...and none of the muppets have AV...lawls. but combinded arms will always triump.

MAX leading to get enimies to draw AV, REXO HA behind, to push past the maxes when AV is drawn , thumpers behind them to provide preasure and any MA in the back. throw an AV max in there to counter any AI maxes..and win.

Meh, I guess Planetside had it pretty good as far as rewarding mixed units. It's just hard to remember sometimes with populations being so low nowadays.

Damn it, I don't care if it's a carbon copy of PS1 in all but netcode and graphics, I want my big battles back.

Accuser · 2011-10-11, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by Xyntech

Maybe players would know that they'd be as good as dead if they didn't have a couple MAXes or HA rexos in their squad when they enter a base, but ideally they would also want a rifleman or two as well if the game made such mixed units valuable. Planetsides way of 20 vs 20 with at least 30 HA weapons between them is boring and repetitive.

Originally Posted by Xyntech

I want more variety in PS2 CQC, that's all. A little more of that rock paper scissors that we all seem to enjoy so much about the outdoor combat.

There are other viable weapons indoors in PS1, but they are by far the exception. HA shouldn't be so far and away superior that it's the majority of what you see.

double QFT
I think Bags is still talking about PS1. This is PS2 discussion.
In PS2 everyone will be able to switch to the Heavy Weapons class and flood the enemy base with HA/Rexo IF that is distinctively superior. In PS1 you have to cert for it, so some people don't have access to HA. In PS2 EVERYONE will roll HA/Rexo if it's far and away better than anything else for fighting indoors. That's why it needs to have drawbacks and be somewhat balanced against MA/Agile and Medic indoors. I have confidence the devs will be more aware of that than Bags is.

Bags · 2011-10-11, 09:51 PM

It isn't far and away better than anything indoors, and there's no reason to believe it will be that way in Planetside 2.

And bases are far bigger and more open in PS2. Also, as of right now it sounds as though only heavy armor can use HA, and I'd assume it's slower.

Xyntech · 2011-10-12, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by Bags

And bases are far bigger and more open in PS2. Also, as of right now it sounds as though only heavy armor can use HA, and I'd assume it's slower.

Yeah, those things alone will go a long way towards mixing it up indoors.

I hope there are some pretty large rooms inside bases in PS2. Having agiles with jump jets be strategically useful in some indoors environments would be pretty interesting.

Hamma · 2011-10-13, 01:23 PM

Via Reddit (Higby):

I don't dislike COD games, I think they're great games, but they're definitely not Planetside. I love Unreal Tournament and Q3A also, I got my start in FPS games playing competitive Quake 2 CTF and Rocket Arena, but they're not Planetside either.

Having played a lot of Battlefield 3 recently, I'd say we're leaning more towards Bad Company 2 in terms of pacing, not as fast as BF3 and certainly not as fast as COD.

Thanks sandrock for telling me I put this on the wrong thread.. haha fail.

Metalsheep · 2011-10-13, 02:52 PM

Somewhere between PS and BFBC2 in pacing along with recharging shields and osok head shot sniper rifle sounds a lot like Halo to me. Which really doesn't have that bad of TTKs depending on what weapons you use. Someone who just picked up a turret (like the MCG) Takes a good 3 or 4 seconds of constant fire to break shields then kill their opponent at medium and long ranges, its a bit faster up close. And medium range rifles take 5 or 6 shots ending with a head shot (or three extra body shots), which if you pace and don't spam, also takes about 2 or 3 seconds (Add about 1.5 seconds if you don't hit the head). Though i just hope they don't make shotguns One Shot like they do in Halo.

If the pacing is similar to Halo, there wont be a huge discrepancy between the TTKs in PS1 and PS2.

I SandRock · 2011-10-13, 02:57 PM

Haha Hamma :P

Yeah this sounds like a welcomed change, though I guess Beta Testing will have to point out how this affects tower and base fights. I do enjoy somewhat prolonged fights, though PS1 fights could be extremely boring stalemates, especially in towers. Everyone doing a few pot shots and then running back to heal back up, rinse and repeat. Hopefully this will help pushing forward a bit more.
While not making it whoever gets the drop wins by default. Or too rock-paper-scissory where the weapon alone determines who wins the fight.

SoE is actually making a lot of sense so far, too much sense, I am becoming scared. When things sound too good to be true they are generally too good to be true, especially in gaming. Start making less sense, SoE