Balance: Restrict Darklight to Infiltrator ClaSS

Xyntech · 2011-11-29, 08:38 AM

I was just watching some PS1 videos and it brought back memories of %50 of the populace running around with darklight.

We don't know if darklight will even be included in PS2, but if it is, or something like it, I think it should be restricted to the class that has Cloakers and Snipers.

Limiting it to one class would drastically reduce the number of people who used it, especially since not every Infiltrator would use it either.

I would further limit it by disallowing the use of darklight while driving a vehicle, so that if you want to kill a cloaker from the air, you have to do it the good old fashioned way and have a keen eye, or spam the area and hope for the best.

With the faster TTK's of PS2, cloakers will go down even quicker, so if they make a mistake and reveal their location, they are going to be very vulnerable. The game shouldn't have invisibility balanced against something that makes it useless, it should be balanced against lower armor, slower movement (when you wish to stay invisible) and generally lighter weapons.

Giving everybody and their mothers the ability to sweep for cloakers seems broken to me. Limiting it to only a specific class has the option to sweep for cloakers would seem a lot more balanced to me.

I can't think of any class better suited for it than the Infiltrator class itself, given it's scouting/intel/tactical orientation. It would certainly add a much more interesting cloaker vs cloaker dynamic that wasn't as strong in the first game. Presumably snipers would find little use for it though, if it still was range restricted like in the first game.

It's not like there wouldn't be other ways for the different classes to defend against cloakers either. PS1 had plasma grenades and while we currently don't know if they will be making a return, I'm sure that there will be plenty of other options to fight back against invisible foes, ways that are a lot more balanced than an "LOL, YOUR ONLY ADVANTAGE IS NOW USELESS" button that everybody has the option to equip. That's essentially like giving you an implant that turns an enemy MAX into the equivalent of an Agile, with lowered armor and damage output, while still moving as slow as a MAX and being unable to use equipment.

Of course, if they remove darklight entirely, this idea is moot.

NewSith · 2011-11-29, 08:45 AM

I'd rather restrict it to support class. I mean we don't really need "cloakers that hunt for other cloakers while being hunted themselves" on the battlefield. While Engineer placing spits or whatever they're called now can find the use for the implant in case his CE starts to disappear in a suspicious way every time he places it.

Traak · 2011-11-29, 08:55 AM

Just "no darklight" is fine with me. Same with "no grenades that highlight where you are." Making cloakers so weak, then making absolutely everybody else able to spot them and kill them with ease doesn't work.

I want to make it so the people who have extra sensory abilities are incapable of using weapons. It's either radar operator, or HA, not Audio-Implant equipped HA/SA flying a radar-enhancing mosquito who can drop on targets that he saw while flying, with Darklight, from the cockpit, etc. etc like it is now.

Either DL or a weapon, not both. If you see something using DL and want to kill it, you can run in with your knife, or switch loadouts and go kill it then.

But everyone and his dog being able to see and kill cloakers with impunity kind of reduces the usefulness of not being able to be seen, except by everybody, almost always, unless you are very far away and crouched. You can do THAT in Rexo.

Vancha · 2011-11-29, 09:13 AM

Premature suggestion. We don't know if it'll exist, how it'll work, how quickly it'll drain stamina (if there is stamina), what the effect will look like, whether it might be class specific already, how vulnerable infiltrators will actually be when seen etc.

You said it yourself, you're basing this in context of the first Planetside. None of the criticisms might be applicable for it's sequel.

Lonehunter · 2011-11-29, 02:06 PM

I think restricting it to stealth only classes would be too OP. Stealthers can't have free reign on non stealthers.

BUT, I do agree Darklight became just way too common in PS1. I wouldn't mind seeing darklight unchanged, but give cloakers a counter against it. Let them be immune to darklight for 2 minutes or something.

Or if you see someone has Darklight on, pull out yo REK and point it at their eyes. Has the same effect as a flash bang lol

Xyntech · 2011-11-29, 03:22 PM

I just feel that until we know more, it's worthwhile to toss out ideas that may address old issues. If it doesn't matter anymore, no harm done. If it's still important, may as well give the devs some ideas to ponder. They probably have their own solutions worked out, but it can't hurt to discuss it. That's what this board is here for.

Maybe cloakers could have some sort of optional super stealth mode. It takes a sec to activate, makes them briefly flicker visible while activating and shuts off the moment they move, but it allows them to be invisible to darklight while they stand there. Allowing them to enter a sort of deep cover. Make them not even flicker when they get shot, but that they can't have any weapons out while it's active and pulling out a weapon also deactivates it.

It would be great for when your cover was blown. Run around a corner, activate it in an out of the way spot and hope for the best.

Another option would be to replace darklight with a special rifle attachment. The attachment would replace a lot of other useful attachments and/or be a sidegrade with some negative drawbacks. Essentially the goal would be to make it so that most people wouldn't carry it, only people who were specifically hunting down cloakers.

The attachment could act sort of like a flashlight, where anything in it's path would get lit up by it's effect. Since everyone could see the affected target, I would make it a very subtle effect, less like PS1's darklight and more like wherever the beam was hitting would have a more imperfect cloak effect, like when you run while cloaked.

I'd also make the effect not be instantaneous, where you actually had to keep the cloaker painted for a second or two for the effect to become fully realized. To counter this, the effect wouldn't fully go away the instant you took the beam off of them, allowing you to reacquire a target if they quickly change positions.

Taking a short amount of time before the effect is noticeable would prevent players from looking around too quickly, spamming a room looking for a cloakers. They would have to do a slightly slower, more methodical sweep if they suspected a cloaker was in an area. Cloakers would see the search beam and just have to do their best to stay away from it, or kill the guy using it.

Needless to say, the beam would have a very short range of effectiveness, similar to PS1's darklight.

I kind of like the idea of a rifle based anti cloaker device because it has a built in reason why you wouldn't be able to use it in a vehicle. There is no reason that vehicles should be able to use darklight. Cloakers pose no threat to vehicles, except maybe stationary land vehicles which have it coming if a cloaker takes them out, so they should have to resort to old fashioned methods if they want to kill a cloaker.

Atuday · 2011-11-29, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by NewSith

I'd rather restrict it to support class. I mean we don't really need "cloakers that hunt for other cloakers while being hunted themselves" on the battlefield. While Engineer placing spits or whatever they're called now can find the use for the implant in case his CE starts to disappear in a suspicious way every time he places it.

While I admit it makes sense to restrict it and also that restricting it to a class other than cloaker is a good idea, I am not convinced that the engineer should be the one to have it. Medics would need it the most to protect themselves while they heal others but also the heavy troopers would need an item like this so as to not leave them open to attack. Heavy troopers being slow any way would make it more balanced because the cloaker if he/she is smart will see the guy with the MCG who could just spray to locate and run the other way.

EASyEightyEight · 2011-11-29, 08:59 PM

Make it into a weapon attachment flashlight thingamajig. It could consume an attachment slot that way, and ninjas can see the beam to know it's active. Otherwise, learn to stay out of sight even while invisible. It's not meant to allow one to move around with impunity, just make one harder to spot at a glance. If you're running around cloaked in the middle of no where or trying to move around in a well traveled area, you're doing it wrong. Granted, PS1 base lay outs made the latter difficult not to, but the new PS2 layouts might be far more open to alternative routes, if SOE's word is anything to go by.

However, since cloaking appears to be a temporary active ability with a recharge period between uses, darklight might be absent in this incarnation of Planetside. It would make good infiltration differentiate poor infiltrators getting caught with their cloaking field on charge from good infiltrators whom... well we never see nor hear about them because they're just that damn good.

SKYeXile · 2011-11-30, 01:44 AM

Heavy assault and audio amp, my counter for cloakers...oh yea...and their stupidity.

I only used it when I was a n00b, but once you play for awhile(and you have a gun that owns them without even hitting them) its pretty lols and thinking about having DL makes me laugh.

DviddLeff · 2011-11-30, 10:45 AM

I didn't use DL, first was that I found Audio Amp more useful as it worked for everyone and second seemingly everyone else had it.

I do however see the need to be able to flush cloakers out without having to spam bullets and grenades.

Xyntech · 2011-11-30, 05:05 PM

Yeah, we really need more info about cloakers.

I hope there are multiple variations of cloak like in TF2.

Maybe have one version that let's you stay cloaked forever if you stand still, another let's you stay 100% invisible even while running at full speed but has an extremely limited charge. A few more that are somewhere in between, or have some other novel function.

CutterJohn · 2011-12-05, 10:25 AM

I'll give up darklight if firing or interacting with something as a cloaker shorts out the cloak and makes them completely visible, and cloaking is not of infinite duration.

Crysis did cloaking well.

Oh, and I want friendly cloakers to be visible so I stop running over them. Half transparency or something.

xSlideShow · 2011-12-05, 01:07 PM

Could instead give it a CD and a use duration. I'm for whatever makes it balanced. I agree it was broken in the original Planetside and was especially lame for newer cloakers who had no idea. Same with needing sensor shield, got owned quite a few times before I found out about that implant.

Originally Posted by Xyntech

Yeah, we really need more info about cloakers.

I hope there are multiple variations of cloak like in TF2.

Maybe have one version that let's you stay cloaked forever if you stand still, another let's you stay 100% invisible even while running at full speed but has an extremely limited charge. A few more that are somewhere in between, or have some other novel function.

One of the answers from the twitter questions made it seem they were adding other variations of cloaking.

SuperMorto · 2011-12-05, 04:53 PM

Heat vision will sort this problem right out. Also you take away any possibility to find and a cloaker, then your dead whenever one comes along. Bit harsh not having any ability to defend yourself.

xSlideShow · 2011-12-06, 12:21 AM

Originally Posted by SuperMorto

Heat vision will sort this problem right out. Also you take away any possibility to find and a cloaker, then your dead whenever one comes along. Bit harsh not having any ability to defend yourself.

You could still see them fine. I didn't use darklight and still didn't get killed by cloakers, not really. Every once in awhile one would get lucky. Hardly ever happened, but I guess it did. Darklight made killing cloakers silly, you could slay an entire field of them as 1 rexo and they wouldn't have a chance. No joke I did it once. Wasn't a field but 6 cloakers in 1 maelstrom clip is pretty funny.