TKer Accountability

Traak · 2011-12-01, 03:13 AM

I think TKing should have a lot more accountability, so it puts the onus on the person doing the TKing to not do it, instead of whoever he is TKing having to try to get something done about it.

This would prevent people joining a squad just so they could TK you, then pop out of it again.

I say if you join a squad, TK someone, then jump out, you are banned for a month.

Any squad you TK someone in, you should be locked into, or face a month ban.

Just generating some ideas to minimize the effect TKers can have.

Another one is instant death, respawn in 20 minutes. If you TK again, then it's 40 minutes. Then 60. Then two days.

In a real military, someone who shot even one friendly would be up for review. On PS? It's just another vector for cheaters to harm others without fear of retribution.

Another alternative is you are frozen in place, can't respawn, can't quit, can't fire your weapon, for ten minutes. Then if the person you killed chooses to, they can just click a button for you to die. Ten times, with no penalty. Further, you show up on enemy radar, and do not get to spawn in anything but jammies, with no weapons, loadout or medpacks.

Making TKing something with far more accountability will make it happen far less often, if even by freezing their weapons.

This way, as I said, if you TK, the onus is on YOU. No amount of crying about someone jumping in your way, or whatever, is going to matter. YOU will have to exercise trigger discipline.

Another approach is that the TKer is immediately booted from the game. If they want to rejoin, they can go through the login procedure.

Couple this with a complaint system, which will also work nicely with video playback-equipped appeals. So someone just randomly being a traitor will be caught on video and they can be banned, permanently.

The honor level of the game is very, very low. The people who inhabit it are, to too great a degree, honorless scum. by placing mechanics in the game that punish being scum, instead of rewarding it, the behaviors will be reduced. And place the onus on the griefer to lay off the trigger, not on the people he is killing.

Obviously CE that kills a friendly is not included, except boomers. I'm talking about vehicles and weapons.

I have noticed, in the game, and on forums, that many PS players lack any morals, honesty, honor, or sense of right or wrong. Some don't even seem to be sane. By making the grief system far stricter, and making it so the person on the trigger is the person who is responsible, grief can be minimized, and little cliques of scum who take it upon themselves to harm others who are trying to enjoy the game, cyber-bullying, as it were, will be punished.

I know that in PS1, at least one outfit was disbanded for ordering outfit TK orders on someone. They need to narrow that down much more.

If you kill someone in a base with no enemies in it, one-month ban. If you kill someone a certain distance from any enemies, one-month ban. If you knife-kill any friendly, permanent ban, because there is no way on Auraxis that could be accidental. You need to go get professional help, then come back to the game.

Start punishing people for being scum, not just for being scum to a degree that they hurt the game for many before even being noticed.

NewSith · 2011-12-01, 06:19 AM

Originally Posted by Traak

I think TKing should have a lot more accountability, so it puts the onus on the person doing the TKing to not do it, instead of whoever he is TKing having to try to get something done about it.

This would prevent people joining a squad just so they could TK you, then pop out of it again.

I say if you join a squad, TK someone, then jump out, you are banned for a month.

Any squad you TK someone in, you should be locked into, or face a month ban.

Just generating some ideas to minimize the effect TKers can have.

Another one is instant death, respawn in 20 minutes. If you TK again, then it's 40 minutes. Then 60. Then two days.

In a real military, someone who shot even one friendly would be up for review. On PS? It's just another vector for cheaters to harm others without fear of retribution.

Another alternative is you are frozen in place, can't respawn, can't quit, can't fire your weapon, for ten minutes. Then if the person you killed chooses to, they can just click a button for you to die. Ten times, with no penalty. Further, you show up on enemy radar, and do not get to spawn in anything but jammies, with no weapons, loadout or medpacks.

Making TKing something with far more accountability will make it happen far less often, if even by freezing their weapons.

This way, as I said, if you TK, the onus is on YOU. No amount of crying about someone jumping in your way, or whatever, is going to matter. YOU will have to exercise trigger discipline.

Another approach is that the TKer is immediately booted from the game. If they want to rejoin, they can go through the login procedure.

Couple this with a complaint system, which will also work nicely with video playback-equipped appeals. So someone just randomly being a traitor will be caught on video and they can be banned, permanently.

The honor level of the game is very, very low. The people who inhabit it are, to too great a degree, honorless scum. by placing mechanics in the game that punish being scum, instead of rewarding it, the behaviors will be reduced. And place the onus on the griefer to lay off the trigger, not on the people he is killing.

Obviously CE that kills a friendly is not included, except boomers. I'm talking about vehicles and weapons.

I have noticed, in the game, and on forums, that many PS players lack any morals, honesty, honor, or sense of right or wrong. Some don't even seem to be sane. By making the grief system far stricter, and making it so the person on the trigger is the person who is responsible, grief can be minimized, and little cliques of scum who take it upon themselves to harm others who are trying to enjoy the game, cyber-bullying, as it were, will be punished.

I know that in PS1, at least one outfit was disbanded for ordering outfit TK orders on someone. They need to narrow that down much more.

If you kill someone in a base with no enemies in it, one-month ban. If you kill someone a certain distance from any enemies, one-month ban. If you knife-kill any friendly, permanent ban, because there is no way on Auraxis that could be accidental. You need to go get professional help, then come back to the game.

Start punishing people for being scum, not just for being scum to a degree that they hurt the game for many before even being noticed.

Yeah and also all these people who just jump in infront of you to steal your kill and yet hatetelling you that you're a stupid tking bitch if you don't stop firing in time. Good way to prove that they are right. Learn to shoot, hell yeah! I wonder if it is a rage or a troll thread Anyway sense is absent here.

Traak · 2011-12-01, 06:25 AM

Yes, hard to keep track of what constitutes intentional FF. Thus I suggested a new solution for no friendly fire damage in another thread.

Trolltaxi · 2011-12-01, 01:41 PM

As a devoted maxuser FF sometimes became an issue. Not because I'm a TK-er, but because others couldn't recongnize the threat of an anchored max facing the waves of incoming enemies... A contested CC-hold could easily mean some hundred griefs.

But removing FF (as you suggest in another thread) would totally mean the wrong course for the game. Instead they should make a way to offer you to actively reduce your grief level with some support work.

NewSith · 2011-12-01, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by Trolltaxi

As a devoted maxuser FF sometimes became an issue. Not because I'm a TK-er, but because others couldn't recongnize the threat of an anchored max facing the waves of incoming enemies... A contested CC-hold could easily mean some hundred griefs.

But removing FF (as you suggest in another thread) would totally mean the wrong course for the game. Instead they should make a way to offer you to actively reduce your grief level with some support work.

"The court is now in session!...
...And for your activities against the friendly fire agreement, you're now sentenced to 72 gametime hours of ANTing!.."

Trolltaxi · 2011-12-01, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by NewSith

"The court is now in session!...
...And for your activities against the friendly fire agreement, you're now sentenced to 72 gametime hours of ANTing!.."

Probably already had that too...

Traak · 2011-12-01, 09:05 PM

LOL Community service! Awesome!

Raka Maru · 2011-12-02, 04:53 AM

High enough grief points, the weapon lock should show chains and helmet off with sad face. Then they can still do heal/repair.

Traak · 2011-12-02, 07:30 AM

LOL

CutterJohn · 2011-12-05, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Raka Maru

High enough grief points, the weapon lock should show chains and helmet off with sad face. Then they can still do heal/repair.

Replace their custom helmet with a dunce cap.

Though that could be an incentive to some.

For TKs, I'm not much worried about it. The only thing that concerns me is how tks work with the fact that you have to purchase upgrades.

For that reason, I suggest that TKs refund the cost of the stuff they lost out of YOUR resources.

Princess Frosty · 2012-01-09, 07:41 AM

The original system of exponentially increasing grief points actually worked very well, it worked both against TKers but also against people who were just clumbsy and weren't very careful.

There's almost no way to tell in game code if someone is intentionally doing team damage or by accident, you can only really go by the frequency of incidents. So in PS1 if you hit once or twice you'd only be awarded a few grief points, but if you kept hitting in quick succession then it started adding tens of grief points and soon 100's.

It meant that the occasional accidental team damage was punished extremely lightly but sustained griefing very quickly reached the griefing limit. I think it was a good system, the only real abuse of it was people would grief you by diving in front of your vehicles or stand in front of locked down maxes, but this type of meta-griefing was actually really rare.

I don't like the idea of griefers earning back grief points, I think that is too open for abuse, griefers working in a team can heal each other and then essentially use that as currency to grief people then re-heal, never underestimate the ability for griefers to work in teams or that they lack skill, quite often their understanding of game mechanics far exceeds that of the regular player.

In short, I wouldn't change the original system, it worked well IMO.

SKYeXile · 2012-01-09, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by Princess Frosty

In short, I wouldn't change the original system, it worked well IMO.

the system will need to be changed, it can form a basis sure. but you're right never underestimate a griefer. especially in a F2P game, Matt has said they're reworking it to account for that. hopefully by allowing you not to get any greif unless you fire a shot. getting hit by a vehcile is rather terrible way to get greif, you can have somebody fly an aircraft into you repeatbly while afk in planetside...even in the sanc and get greif locked(its harder in the sanc since you can heal them) but its highly possible grief lock somebody afk in a CY.

Princess Frosty · 2012-01-09, 07:53 AM

I thought you couldn't attack in Sanc?

Anyway that's easily solved by locking grief scale in sanc, or whatever replaces sanc in PS2.

I don't believe you'll find a better way of handling griefers.

SKYeXile · 2012-01-09, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by Princess Frosty

I thought you couldn't attack in Sanc?

Anyway that's easily solved by locking grief scale in sanc, or whatever replaces sanc in PS2.

I don't believe you'll find a better way of handling griefers.

i think its a good system, but like matt said it needs some changes so new characters and accounts accumulate grief faster than old ones.

I think it does need a faster decay system for players activity in combat based on their participation.

I could play planetside abit back in the day , i found it alittle strange that my greif, the person pulling in the most BEP per day, world wide. would decay at the same rate as somebody who played for 2 minutes.

morf · 2012-01-09, 08:24 AM

I understand Traak's frustration here but I feel like a system like the one he described will just make intentionally jumping in front of friendly fire and vehicles the new, ultra-improved way to grief.

I posted this in another thread a long time ago but I'm with Sky - if a new grief system expects that you will hit enemies say (for example) 90% of the time at minimum and allows you to work off grief points by making a positive contribution - this is the best way to go.

The flaw in the old system was that while a benevolent player who had really high playtime would need to be very careful and walk on eggshells not to accumulate too much grief, a dedicated griefer who only played 1 hour a day could cause way too much havoc before being weapons locked. This is why you have to look at grief as a percentage of your positive contribution. A real time decay system isn't a productive way of solving the problem.

If you allow working off of grief by killing enemies, you can weapons lock much earlier than in PS1. A good player can just be extra careful to shoot only enemies until he works the level down again. It doesn't decay over time, you have to work it off. So if a TKer gets weapon locked, logs out for 3 days, and comes back he's still going to be at max grief and he'll need to kill a whole hell of a lot of enemies to avoid weapons lock again.

This effectively makes it impossible to do more than 10% (or whatever number the devs think is appropriate) of your damage to friendlies.

Alternatively, they could always go to mirror damage i.e. whatever FF you do just damages you instead of the target. This preserves a penalty for accidental FF, but it takes away from the realism.