Question about Safe-Zones - Page 2

acosmo · 2012-01-13, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

Did you station guards next to a warpgate in PS? Even when they had a lattice link?

They've already said that links to surrounding bases would make the capture time go up, while enemy links to that base would make it go down. Capping a base with no friendly links(and I doubt the uncappable base will count) will take something like 30 minutes. There could even be an additional bonus for having an entire continent capped, meaning it would take even longer to take. Meanwhile the previous owners could cap it back in 30s.

well, it'll be fun to figure out how to rape the entire map until the playerbase is unconscious.

ringring · 2012-01-14, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

Did you station guards next to a warpgate in PS? Even when they had a lattice link?

They've already said that links to surrounding bases would make the capture time go up, while enemy links to that base would make it go down. Capping a base with no friendly links(and I doubt the uncappable base will count) will take something like 30 minutes. There could even be an additional bonus for having an entire continent capped, meaning it would take even longer to take. Meanwhile the previous owners could cap it back in 30s.

Yes, we did and do even now. Not continuously but when we knew the NC/VS are looking or will be looking for a fight.

We'd also 'CE up' the linked bases.

We'd also choose our targets based on the linked bases the other two empires had to us. e.g. if we attack NC what will the VS do? Oh noes, once they cap the cont they are on presently their only option will be to attack a cont of ours!

Soooo, I'm with the general opinion on this thread in that never being able to lock a cont sounds just wrong, however I guess we need to fully understand gameplay before coming to a definative conclusion.

basti · 2012-01-14, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by acosmo

soe intends to make the game less about conquest and more about resources.

They clearly want to make it more about resources, but the way i see it, conquest actually benefits from it.

In Ps1, we often had situations where you couldnt push, or didnt want to.
Lets take North East Ish Triangle for example:

Baal, Akkan, Dagon. Those are the 3 bases, the 3 bases that game me a lot of stuff to think about.

TR-Dagon
NC-Baal
VS-Akkan

Obviously, the NC are down to one base, VS have the south, TR the north.

TR usually try to attack Baal, VS Baal or Hanish, NC Dagon. If everyone attacks Baal, you have a 3 way that cannot be won. Both Tr and VS would attack from the same side (the Hill between Dagon and Baal forces the TR to head a bit more south, right into the VS), and even if one of the two manages to overpower the other, Baals geographics make it extremly hard to attack the base head on (The little hill that the tower stands on divides the rest of the continent and baals general area, providing any defender with rather save position for tanks, and a quick and easy way to retreat. )

In fact, i never saw baal being taken in a Akkan Dagon Baal 3way. Never.
The only winning move for the TR here is to completly abadon dagon, defend hanish, let the NC take dagon, let the VS push baal hard and take CY or more, and retake dagon after baal gen/spawns are down and the NC are cleared out.
The winning move for the VS is to play the same game. Attack Hanish hard, force the TR to retreat to hanish, wait till the NC go after dagon, then push baal quick and hard, take it, and hope the TR take dagon instead of akkan.

in 8 of 10 tries, this strategy failed. Not because its flawed (not at all, its brilliant, after all it is my strategy :P ), but because execution requires high precision, and the other empires need to run right into it. Usually it ended in a clash between TR and VS for akkan/hanish, NC retaking dagon and then joining the 3 way.

Now, the resource system, in combination with the territory system and the uncapturable base stuff, could change this completly. Instead of being forced into the Baal Akkan Dagon triangle, any empire could just go somewhere else. I did paint hex grids over all the continents quite some time ago, and checked the theory of the design, and so far i didnt found anything that could end up in a dead end triangle. There are just so more options now.

CutterJohn · 2012-01-14, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by ringring

Soooo, I'm with the general opinion on this thread in that never being able to lock a cont sounds just wrong, however I guess we need to fully understand gameplay before coming to a definative conclusion.

How do you figure? I'm betting locking a continent gives some nice bennies, obviously one of which is to make it really hard for an enemy to cap a base there.

Indeed, I imagine that sometime soon after the game begins, each empire will, quite unofficially, have its home home continent or two, that they aggressively defend because that is theirs, goddammit!

Which also means it will be a great source of pride to cap it away from them.

ringring · 2012-01-14, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

How do you figure? I'm betting locking a continent gives some nice bennies, obviously one of which is to make it really hard for an enemy to cap a base there.

Indeed, I imagine that sometime soon after the game begins, each empire will, quite unofficially, have its home home continent or two, that they aggressively defend because that is theirs, goddammit!

Which also means it will be a great source of pride to cap it away from them.

There's always a link to any cont, therefore by definition a cont can't be locked.

And didn't you say to capture a base with no friendly hexes could take 30 minutes. It is a disincentive but no barrier; it is slightly less time as it took to capture say Oro (prior to the drain virus) and I've seen that and similar done many times.

Xyntech · 2012-01-14, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by ringring

There's always a link to any cont, therefore by definition a cont can't be locked.

And didn't you say to capture a base with no friendly hexes could take 30 minutes. It is a disincentive but no barrier; it is slightly less time as it took to capture say Oro (prior to the drain virus) and I've seen that and similar done many times.

Yeah, but once you capped that base, it would take at least 15 minutes for the enemy to recapture it.

If the enemy has that base surrounded, they will take it back in 30 seconds. Holding it will be extremely hard, defending your territory will be relatively easy. Even a momentary surge will allow them to retake it.

NewSith · 2012-01-14, 06:15 PM

You guys are too fixed on the sytem being chess board-like, where all terrain is covered with capturable terrain and every piece is connected from all sides:

But instead, we're most likely to get a hex layout which is a map on a map.
So in fact terrain itself will only be a part of resource play. Imagine 6th square in the first line to be a certain hex, that is the only link to the rest of the continent. Strategically convinient point based on layout. But this point is situated in the swamp, making it very hard for vehicular combat. The space below the desired square is passable and represents a wide open area - perfect place for vehicle combat. This area also provides a route to the main resourceland that is connected by that single hex, allowing to go around the critical loacation to leave the enemy without bonus, following scorched earth doctrine. Now that's strategically convinient point based on landscape.

In the end it may turn out that we're going to have Company of Heroes territory control model where certain points give control over critical objects, far into enemy territory, where hex control would not give such advantage. Just like VS controlling the road in the picture below:

PS: Miir, I want your video in 3d as in your signature, with Cabal or EVA voice (from C&C) explaining sutff =P I have Cabal's voice in my head every time I see your sig.

Elude · 2012-01-14, 06:35 PM

Aside from decreasing the downtime to get into combat or the need for resources instead of continental control, I think another reason they've changed it this way is to keep players active on said continent at all times.

They've put so much effort into this one continent with manually detailing areas of the terrain and keeping bases looking unique, I highly doubt they'll let it take a break from player weapons fire.