IMO KillCam killing the Game

[Azren]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

Hate to break it to you, but in the realm of FPSs, PS shares much more in common with BF/COD than other games. It uses the same general mix of arcadey and real. The people that will want to play all three games are the exact same crowd. I know you like to feel superior because you play[ed] PS, but you're not.



Yes please. Then I'll have a nice advantage over people who mistakenly think it matters somehow.

There is one diffrence. The BF/CoD crowd will be the portion of the population who leaves PS2 as soon as a new BF or CoD comes out. Those who come from PS, won't.

[Azren]

Originally Posted by VioletZero

Well, I guess we'll see when the game goes into beta.

That's what the beta is for after all. If it breaks the game too much then we can always remove it.

Get real, beta is for stress test, don't expect any major changes after it. Beta is kind of same as release version, only diffrence are the bugfixes.

[BuzzCutPsycho]

I will laugh if PS2 has a kill cam.

[Gortha]

Originally Posted by arclegger

With a game that has as many players as Planetside 2 will.

The odds of you killing someone and the following happens:
They see your killcam/position
They wait to respawn (most likely not exactly at the same spot they died)
They find you (how this happens again is beyond me, enough time has passed that I guarantee you're not in the same position anymore where the player first saw you on the killcam)
That same person kills you because they saw your killcam.

All that happens before you die yourself, or they die again.

The server pop must be incredibly low.

Also, if I die and I see a killcam of 1 guy but the reason I died is because it was a huge 20v20 infantry standoff I don't see how the killcam ruins the game?

For the snipers, I love kill cams if I'm a sniper. I can kill a guy, then go and find a new spot. That guy sees my kill cam and tries to find me at the same spot and I kill him again because I moved 20 yards. Rinse Repeat.

In My Opinion the origin of the killcam into fps games was to get rid of campers (nobody liked campers in the old fps days). Now designers use it to help them flesh out hackers, help new players, and give insight to an experienced player as to why he died. It's not there to break immersion and mess up the guy who's getting the kills.

For the record I'm not in charge of what happens when it comes to killcam, I'm just throwing in my perspective as a player/lover of fps games. I'm for the killcam, but that's just me.

Hey arclegger,

thanks for a statement. There are not always Mass-fighting situations, where the KilllCam is less fatal in sense of free intel.


You wont believe it, but there are Clans/Outfits and Squads out there who are able to use Voice-Communication!

If i play with my mates and tell them that you are at a specific position, where u are heading to, because i know it because of the KillCam [B]it will ruin your game[/B1]. You ll be dead in Seconds. No way it´s might be fun for you, when you are rolled by my mates, because of Intel i just got via the KillCam.

Your Sniper-arguments are not valid. Espescially Snipers hate KillCams - and do not like to have to change position because of a KillCam. You are in the minority with your view.


As you can see in the poll results KillCam is not wanted and does in the eyes of most players not benefit the game. There are many good and valid arguments by those who are against KillCams in PS2. Please think about em.

All a KillCam is good for, is making games arcarde-like, less serious, breaking immersion, giving away free Intel (Position, Direction, evetually moving directon Armor, Weapons, Equip, Numbers and kind of other Enemies).
It´s nothing for Planetside2.

Regards
Gortha

[CuddlyChud]

Originally Posted by Azren

There is one diffrence. The BF/CoD crowd will be the portion of the population who leaves PS2 as soon as a new BF or CoD comes out. Those who come from PS, won't.

And if all PS2 manages to do is keep all the PS1 players, it would probably still fail the same way PS1 did. I'm not saying to add the Kill Cam only to attract those people. I think that it has some positives and some negatives, but overall is a good idea.

[Sabrak]

Originally Posted by VioletZero

Only if they're glued to one spot the whole time.

Originally Posted by basti

You are confusing sniper and camper here.

I don't understand....
Playing the lone sniper, looking for the right spot to be able to get some kills on isolated targets.... That's not an invalid tactic.

And hey, this is not CoD or CS.
If you're getting shot down by the same (group of) sniper(s) several times, the problem isn't that he's camping, it's that you keep going out there as a defenseless zerg.

Get your ass in a lightning/MBT/air-fighter/cloak suit, or ask people from your squad/outfit to do so, and go out to look for the snipers and hunt them down.

KillCam shouldn't be needed, and shouldn't show you where the guy is.
Just do your work to find where he is and kick his butt.

[HitbackTR]

Originally Posted by Sabrak

And hey, this is not CoD or CS.
If you're getting shot down by the same (group of) sniper(s) several times, the problem isn't that he's camping, it's that you keep going out there as a defenseless zerg.

Get your ass in a lightning/MBT/air-fighter/cloak suit, or ask people from your squad/outfit to do so, and go out to look for the snipers and hunt them down.

KillCam shouldn't be needed, and shouldn't show you where the guy is.
Just do your work to find where he is and kick his butt.

This^^^^^^This This This^^^^^

[Hermes]

Originally Posted by Azren

Get real, beta is for stress test, don't expect any major changes after it. Beta is kind of same as release version, only diffrence are the bugfixes.

Making general statements about how this team is going to manage their beta is pretty odd. Every team is different, every product is different, and they all give different approaches?

Anyway. Can we take a peek at the responses in this thread? Everyone who's not against this feature is fairly apathetic - 'wait and see'.

It's not a contentious issue for many people, and im wondering if many of them are as confused as me over the furor here. Is the anti killcam passion just coming from a love of PS1 turning into fear about anything being changed?

I'm nervous as hell about inventories being removed but I'm not sharpening a pitchfork over it as this game is not just a reskin. With enough things changing I need to play the thing before I can justify an angry strong opinion...

..which is what a lot of posts here are coming across as.



tl:dr lets not throw our toys out of the pram. Let them build the jigsaw before we pick up a bit of sky and claim it doesnt fit anywhere

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by Gortha

As you can see in the poll results KillCam is not wanted and does in the eyes of most players not benefit the game.

This is a very biased and self selected group. Not that thats bad. Its just the truth. The people who hang out here are ALL current or ex PS players, and are passionate enough about the game to hang out on the forum for a game thats not even out yet, and people like that are going to be very hesitant about accepting changes to the formula for the game they love.

The vast majority of PS2 players will not care about classes, or f2p, or one shot one kill snipers, or kill cams, or buggies being gone, or lack of vehicle animations, or no customizeable loadouts, or driver gunned tanks, or no ams/ant/lodestar, or tanks with AA, or cloaking snipers, etc, etc, etc, because their first experience with the PS franchise will be PS2. We are a minority.

They undoubtedly want to please the fans, but they also have to make sure the rest of the playerbase is happy, the ones who know nothing about PS1 and won't judge the knew one based on how it changed from the old one.

[Vancha]

^
Saying they won't have a problem with something because they hadn't experienced the better alternative doesn't mean "we" shouldn't try and make it as good a game as possible for them (okay, that's overstating our influence slightly). The game will only become less malleable from here...

[LZachariah]

I'm glad to hear that everyone is thinking deeply about this issue (not that we have ANY final say in what the Devs decide) but one thing I will state is, PLEASE be nice to any Dev that posts on this forum. I'm very grateful that Arclegger read this thread and decided to comment on it. His opinions are quite opposite of mine, but that's the purpose of a thread that is available to everyone; open discussion.

If you are going to disagree with a Dev on this forum, that's completely fine, it's your right, but please do it in a respectful, careful way; these are the people who are MAKING THE GAME FOR WHICH THIS FORUM EXISTS.

Thanks Arclegger, for taking a glance at our considerations.

~Zachariah

[AncientVanu]

The only good thing about a CoD-style killcam is that it can be used to detect cheaters. Other killcams that are not "view through the enemy eyes" and just show you the position of the enemy that just killed you are completely useless.

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by Vancha

^
Saying they won't have a problem with something because they hadn't experienced the better alternative doesn't mean "we" shouldn't try and make it as good a game as possible for them (okay, that's overstating our influence slightly). The game will only become less malleable from here...

Sure, but my point is that a game some PS1 vets want may not be a commercially successful formula or popular with the current FPS crowd.

[JHendy]

Here's the thing. The only reason DICE introduced the killcam to Battlefield 3 was because they were intentionally gunning for a slice of COD's market share on console.

Killcam is a console feature, and Planetside 2 is a PC exclusive. Please don't succumb to the market trends, devs.

We can already see that console features like killcam are entirely out of place in a session-based Battlefield game, so what the hell are they doing in a tactical persistent FPS like PS2?

[Coreldan]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

Sure, but my point is that a game some PS1 vets want may not be a commercially successful formula or popular with the current FPS crowd.

This. While Im all for keeping true to the first planetside, but comments like "thats why you dont listen to the majority" are utterly ridicilous. Planetside was never a huge success for many reasons. Also, the hardcore minority dont pay the bills, this game will have to attract way larger audience than the current playerbase and you wont do that unless the game mechanics are up to date instead of going with what was acceptable in 2003. Im not saying I want killcam myself, but theres something to think about..

Im also a forum mod on the official APB forums and I see fairly much of the few percrntage of overall playerbase whining how G1 caters to casuals instead of them. REALLY? You are surprised they cater for 90% their customers instead of a handful minority? I get the argument that the casuals often dont stat long while the HC minority plays for a long time, but a game has to be easily accessible, attractive and enjoyable for the majority who dont play st e-sports levels.