IMO KillCam killing the Game

[Bags]

Originally Posted by Gandhi

I have no problem with the many issues from Planetside being fixed. I don't like the COF system, I don't like the ADAD spamming, the third person camera, the one speed movement, the 'swimming through molasses' feeling you get when jumping and the tons of downtime between respawning and getting back to the battle. Just to name a few.

But I reject the idea that we have to choose between vanilla PS1 or BF3 with 1000 people. This game already offers something no other game does, that's what's going to attract people to it regardless of how the mechanics are handled. As long as they're not terrible SOE basically has carte blanc to try whatever they want. And it seems like instead of taking advantage of that freedom a lot of features are just being copied from other shooters. Killcams, why? Iron sights that block half your screen when you use them, why? One shot kills for snipers, why? Do these things really make Planetside 2 more like what the original tried to be but couldn't be because of what you said, limitations in technology?

ADAD warping isn't a clunky mechanic so much as terrible net code. AGainst people who don't warp it's fine.

[Graywolves]

Originally Posted by Coreldan

On the other hand, why NOT implement these? The blockbuster shooters have them, just about any modern shooter has them?

So I'd like to reverse the question, do you really think Planetside can't be what made it amazing even if it has the modern day bells and whistles? What makes you think that the lack of modern and common features on shooters would make it better than having them?

Even with the scale, if the game feels like CoD or BF3, what's the point of playing? People won't be bought on scale alone.

[Bags]

I would be. BF3 on PS's scale would be worth playing, IMO. Maybe some tweaks would be needed, but I'd settle for BF3's gameplay.

Not saying i don't greatly prefer PS, tho.

[Jaxbrain]

It's important for all stealth based kills to leave the enemy guessing. It's kind of the whole point.

And I'm not talking solely about stealthers, I'm talking about pretty much any kill from outside the enemy's field of vision.

If I get killed by artillery, I don't WANT to know exactly where the flail is. I want to follow the sporadic tracers. If the game just tells me where they are, it absolutely kills the immersion.

[Coreldan]

Originally Posted by Graywolves

Even with the scale, if the game feels like CoD or BF3, what's the point of playing? People won't be bought on scale alone.

If the game plays like a game from 2003, why would anyone play it? People wont be bought on scale alone.

Hell, I'd personally love if PS had gunplay anywhere near BF3. It's not perfect, but PS has just about the worst gunplay in any FPS I've ever played.

I don't blame it, it's an old game and limited by that days technology.

I guess this is just something that is too opinion-based to ever really argue properly. I personally see BF3s mechanisms (except for killcam) just about vastly superior to anything PS has to offer on similar front. What makes me love PS much more than BF3 is the rest of the game and the whole idea of it. However, lack of sprint, ironsights, etc are NOT the reason I prefer PS over BF3.

But yeah, opinions, I can't you talk over to like BF3s mechanics and you certainly wont be able to talk me over to prefer PSs ancient and totally lacking mechanics in gunplay/character handling over BF3s.

[Bags]

PS1 had sprint, it was called surge and is vastly more tactical.

[Vancha]

Originally Posted by Coreldan

On the other hand, why NOT implement these? The blockbuster shooters have them, just about any modern shooter has them?

So I'd like to reverse the question, do you really think Planetside can't be what made it amazing even if it has the modern day bells and whistles? What makes you think that the lack of modern and common features on shooters would make it better than having them?

Because certain bells and whistles work differently depending on whether they're in a game of Battlefield's scale, or in a game of Planetside's scale.

[Coreldan]

Originally Posted by Bags

PS1 had sprint, it was called surge and is vastly more tactical.

Another clunky mechanic though. Sprint can easily be combined with not being able to shoot and slowing you down in getting weapon ready while also draining stamina/similar that is shared with implants/other stuff.

Not to mention how annoying it was at low BRs when you were forced to crawl through the continent

[Pillow]

Anyone thought of minekills + killcam yet?
What if a engineer gets a minekill when he is in a galaxy or something :P

[Gandhi]

Originally Posted by Coreldan

So I'd like to reverse the question, do you really think Planetside can't be what made it amazing even if it has the modern day bells and whistles? What makes you think that the lack of modern and common features on shooters would make it better than having them?

Well that's the question isn't it? Do these things bring the game closer to what we all want Planetside to be? Everyone has a different vision of "the perfect Planetside", obviously.

Honestly I'm not against some of those things I mentioned, I just think they can be done better. I'll use iron sights as an example of what I mean.

In BF3 you'd almost be better off if M1 were rebound to automatically do M2 then M1. Going into iron sights is just something you do before you fire, regardless of the distance involved, regardless of how you're moving. Part of this is the rather low TTK, where the ability to move isn't nearly as important as landing your shots. I'm not against the idea of going into 'iron sight mode' to be more accurate, but there's no reason it should be a requirement at anything under medium range. In fact it should offer zero benefit under 50 meters or so.

Other than that, one thing that's always bugged me about iron sights in modern shooters is that I'm basically making it harder to see what I'm shooting whenever I want to be more accurate. Real guns have actual "iron sights", so the guns in BF3 have them too. There's no thought given to the fact that in the game you're limited to a really primitive single lens camera, whereas in real life we have very awesome binocular vision. Now, Planetside 2 not being a "realistic modern warfare" shooter, do we really need to have the same bulky iron sights? Wouldn't it be an improvement to not block your view of what you're shooting in order to shoot more accurately? Can't we replace them with a little holographic display above the gun? These are questions I'd like to see considered.

And I think that's where a lot of the "disgruntled vets" are coming from. They're feeling like instead of discussing the best way to do things for this game in particular features are being pulled from other games simply because they're successful. The core concept of Planetside is so good that SOE has room to try new things without driving off potential customers, so why not make use of that?

[Sirisian]

I'm still undecided. Honestly I really don't see what the big deal is unless you're camping. However, the previous comment by Higby about having an implant to block kill cams seems like a lame implant. If they cause that much of a problem for certain classes they should probably be removed so players aren't locked into having that implant to play their class correctly.

Should be interesting to see how its implemented.

// edit: Gandhi those are some really good points. They were brought up in the Iron Sights thread which is more suited for that discussion.

[Vancha]

Originally Posted by Sirisian

I'm still undecided. Honestly I really see what the big deal is unless you're camping. However, the previous comment by Higby about having an implant to block kill cams seems like a lame implant. If they cause that much of a problem for certain classes they should probably be removed so players are locked into having that implant to play their class correctly.

Should be interesting to see how its implemented.

This is what I thought. A killcam-blocking implant would basically be for snipers/cloakers what sensor shield was for cloakers in Planetside...Something that automatically took up an implant slot when it should have been built into the role.

[Gandhi]

Originally Posted by Sirisian

// edit: Gandhi those are some really good points. They were brought up in the Iron Sights thread which is more suited for that discussion.

Yeah, sorry I didn't mean to derail the thread. It's just that kill cams weren't a good example of the point I was trying to make because I think they flat out shouldn't be in the game at all

Although I wouldn't mind something like a camera that binds to a random friendly player when I die, or one that just shows my immediate surroundings.

[BigBossMonkey]

I'm pretty neutral on this, I really am failing to see the big deal.

Especially when Higby says if they don't work they will be removed...

I say wait for the game to hit beta at least before screaming how the game is being killed (Game is in what, Alpha? It is a bit early man...)

[Hamma]

Honestly I think quite a bit of the reason people are so passionate about this issue is they are upset about the current state of gaming.

Gaming as we know it has become very cookie cutter. Most games especially FPS's are made for people with very short attention spans. Many people remember PlanetSide and other games where you didn't have to grind for X hours to get X weapon unlock for your weapon. You could come in the game and have the same weapon as anyone else on the field. Gaming was more based on skill than time as it is now.

They (we) want more from PlanetSide 2 than to be a cookie cutter FPS within a larger world. Sure it will be a large persistent MMO and not a round by round shooter. Where do we make the tradeoff? We are already going to be able to spawn as MAX Units (or whatever class we are) without having to hit equipment terminals. That already takes out a big piece of some of the different strategies you could use to bring an enemy's base down.

I don't blame people for being worried and passionate about an issue like this. I am willing to wait and see - but I'll admit I have a little fear underneath it all as well. I want a game that brings me back to where I was back then rather than a game I will burn out on in a month because it's the same as other games.

And that is the tightrope that the developers have to walk.