Shooting looked so floaty and weak... - Page 4

Coreldan · 2012-03-08, 04:38 AM

Originally Posted by deltase

Was that in PS1? Shooting first and getting a 100% kill means that you just another guy who wants kills rather than real duel to death, in which skill is shown! And i thought PS players were a bit different from the rest of the players. Nope it's the same old story all over again. First dislike why the TTK is shorter then when you see the first gameplay videos then you are "ZOMG MAD SKILLS GOOD!" and forget about what you said earlier.

I don't know how many games you've played. I don't know how good you are. But in my vast gaming experience one thing always showed me that games with really fast TTK and really slow movement (PS. BF and etc.) will become a kill fest rather than a teambased shooter.

Now you thing that it's so cool but it won't be when people start camping, saying that they are "protecting" or "securing" the area. The best moments of a game is when you are constantly on the move, flanking doing things with your team and not sitting behind a corner all the time. Fast TTK will bring just that.

So i think lowering the TTK is for the best cause it will promote teamwork and not personal stats and "ZOMG IDA GOD!!!!!!11111!".

I've played lower TTK games for the last 12 years or something. High TTK "duel to the death" games have never appealed to me, I prefer the more "tactical shooter" kinda games. I personally never camp and rarely find it an issue in the games I play.

Planetside was always an exception to this cos it was such an unique game that you either put up with the horrible gunplay (IMO) or skipped the amazing game entirely. Same goes here. The TTK is still far off from what I usually prefer, but the game overall looks so frigging amazing that it wont stop me from playing it. If nothing else, I can do non-combat roles and still enjoy the game. That said, I dont think Planetside 2 would work with any lower TTK cos of it's scale. The current one seems like a pretty good midroad between too fast and too slow.

And well, if I have to choose to be killed by a camper or have to do a multi-second gun duel in every encounter, I choose getting killed by a camper. I'm sorry but I just do not enjoy those ridicilous duels, I come from too much realism background for that

Also, I'm just about the last killwhore you'll find on this planet. Shooting people on the way is secondary for me, it's always been about objective for me. But since I do have to shoot the people on the way, I prefer they die in a moderate time instead of having some god damned duel every time.

Nick · 2012-03-08, 05:16 AM

They are only 3-4 months into alpha, and said during the demo lots of explosions and sounds were placeholder.

Kalbuth · 2012-03-08, 05:34 AM

TTK in vid are really not that low, I'd say they are in between BF3 and ET:QW, that sounds a-ok for me, we'll see when the fights get really massive.
Recoils were feeling indeed a bit lacking in.... I don't know, weight. And too many animations were missing, so I feel it's too early to tell.
Overall, the first seconds of seeing infantry combat, I disliked the guns feeling.
But funilly, the big picture in the end is really good. I don't know why, but the feel is there, despite a few issues in apparent gun handling.

And please, no, no screen shaking, bullets immobilizing you, all this overdone crap seen in BF3. When I play a shooter, I want to play. When I'm frozen, I can't play. When a random explosion nearby screw up my aim, I can't play. This is something I really hate in BF3. Tactics relying on preventing the ennemy to play the game are going to frustrate many

XLynxX · 2012-03-08, 07:18 AM

From all the FPS' i've played, I'd agree that smoother aiming systems are much better for overall gameplay. BF:BC2/BF3 shooting mechanics may be realistic but can get very frustrating, esp in a game with a long TTK. You want fights to last ages, not individual battles or it becomes annoying.

COD4 had one of the best aiming systems, the gun went where you wanted it to go and the recoil was enough so that it was managable.

I'm not arguing for a insanely floaty, can't feel the gun at all idea. But for a game in which TTK is longish, but you want to make gameplay fast paced you need an aiming system where the gun feels apart of you and not a laggy, un-responsive hinderance (BF3).

Obviously none of us can know what it's like current, but from that video it seemed half decent and the only real issues was the server/game lag he kept getting (which is due to it clearly being in alpha).

Bags · 2012-03-08, 10:30 AM

I still don't understand what you guys mean by floaty... looked like BF3 with different guns, gunplay wise.

EVILoHOMER · 2012-03-08, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

I still don't understand what you guys mean by floaty... looked like BF3 with different guns, gunplay wise.

Just sensitivity, how there is barely any kick back and no recoil. There are a lot of games where you can turn your mouse DPI way down and the guns still move too fast like they're weightless and feel floaty.

It's hard to describe but Counter Strike gets it spot on, so that's the best way I can describe it.

Gortha · 2012-03-08, 12:54 PM

IMHO, sorry SoE, the Shooting mechanics are really terrible right now... as they are now.

It´s like Quake3 or Seriuos Sam -> Spray and Pray Gameplay. Which takes away a lot of player skill - in sense of aiming and weapon Control... mastering your weapon.

I am talking about Assault Rifles, which were showed in the Videos.

The weapons got almost no spread and the players are just holding down the Fire-button until the Enemy is dead or the clip is empty. That´s terrible.

No need for short fusillades/volley (don´t know the right word in english) to keep control over your weapon to be able to fire accurately.

That´s not like PS2 should be... IMHO.

Gortha · 2012-03-08, 01:34 PM

Here an example how recoil works and how it should be in a proper game which isn´t Serious Sam...

and another one:

Coreldan · 2012-03-08, 01:39 PM

Neither of them were good shooters, that caliber is not even a common full auto round just about nowhere in the world for that reason alone.

Now here is a professional with a caliber that one might actually use in a combat situation

(nothing wrong with 7,62x51, but theres a reason its not used in assault rifles much anymore)

The second video you posted, the guy has probably never before fired a weapon judging from his stance or at least if he has gotten any firearm training, the instructors need to get fired.

How about another famous assault rifle caliber?

I'm not for no-recoil, but the videos you showed are definitely what it should be either.

EDIT: Oh, heres the same gun than in the other video you posted and the same caliber as in both of the videos you posted, just with a much better shooter (note: you need to put it on 240p for sound to work):

Hey, moar!

Gortha · 2012-03-08, 01:53 PM

Well the middle way between both extremes would be okay for me.

But u can see the stance the guys are in...

While moving it is not possible to be that accurate in Full Auto.

**Higby** · 2012-03-08, 01:57 PM

Hey, thanks for the feedback. We know we have a lot of work to do to get our gunplay feel up to snuff. We're working on it. Keep in mind I was running around with a forward grip which does cut down on recoil quite a bit!

Coreldan · 2012-03-08, 02:04 PM

What downside does the vertical grip have?

That thing in BF3 is a huge netgain on just about every weapon, that is no sidegrade. If you need ideas, perhaps.. longer reload? Those things are a bit on the way when reloading at least on shorter weapons. Talking about reloading, can we please have smart reloading so that it wont pull the cocking handle if the weapon isnt dry?

Also, why was nobody using the full size weapons? I noticed you had selected the full size Gauss for medic only, while at least your light assault and engi used the carbine? How are these two different?

Thanks for your reply though, and remember that we're just so "bloodthirsty" cos we dont get to play the game and rip apart every video and screenie we get. We honestly dont have a clue how the weapons act cos we werent behind the monitor controlling the recoil. We're just grasping at what we barely can.

@Gortha, well nobody sane would really be running and gunning anyways

That said, competing in practical shooting, firing a 7,62x39 on the move isn't that hard either. Given, thats semi auto experience, but perhaps look at this video from http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...L9JLTPY#t=148s 2:30 or so.

ArmedZealot · 2012-03-08, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by Higby

Hey, thanks for the feedback. We know we have a lot of work to do to get our gunplay feel up to snuff. We're working on it. Keep in mind I was running around with a forward grip which does cut down on recoil quite a bit!

It's fantastic that we have feedback from you and the developers to show us that our critiques are being considered!

Glad to see you guys are taking the issue seriously. This aspect of the game is critical for both immersion and player enjoyment. This could be a whole new avenue to further diversify the empires to emphasize there differences between the traditional differences that were in Planetside 1 and shields.

Bags · 2012-03-08, 02:13 PM

Uhg. Am I the only person who doesn't want my gun flying all over the screen after firing 3 bullets?

ArmedZealot · 2012-03-08, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

Uhg. Am I the only person who doesn't want my gun flying all over the screen after firing 3 bullets?

It's not just recoil that makes the shooting seem floaty and weak but other elements like sound, animation, and the timing of those.