To be honest, I'm disappointed PS2 is copying CoD/BF's gunplay. - Page 5

kaffis · 2012-03-12, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by Higby

Trust me, if we were "lazy" we wouldn't have all those elements in the game, they're incredibly hard to get right and we're still a long way from having them feel perfect. Making guns feel like a game from 10 years ago isn't hard, but every person who hasn't been in a cave for the last 10 years will feel like something is missing when they play. You guys are also looking at gameplay videos which means you're concentrating a lot more on the animations and screenshakes than you would be when playing and focusing on guys getting into your crosshairs.

Higby, I just want to throw in -- this is a fair thing to say; however, I want to make sure you guys consider something when you're doing your demographics calculations and your focus groups:

There are a contingent of gamers who stopped playing FPS when the CoD/Battlefield (and, I would argue, going all the way back to CounterStrike) model of hyper-realistic, super-simulated gunplay became the fashion.

I don't play FPS anymore, but I'd be drawn back to a transparent, well-UI'd cone of fire bloom system in a heartbeat.

I don't know how many of us out there are like me, and if your research shows it's really a very small number and doesn't warrant balancing around, that's fine. I just want to ask you guys to not just assume we don't exist and that everybody considers the changes in the last 10 years of FPS to be 100% improvements.

Hamma · 2012-03-12, 03:17 PM

VanuMAXGuy has been removed and IP banned. He was in fact Marth Koopa.

Stardouser · 2012-03-12, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by Knocky

PS1 allows third person wallhumping heroes.

Third person is removed for infantry in PS2.

Now they are complaining about FoV to compensate for their "leet skills" being removed.

What's wallhumping? Do you mean just using third person to see around corners?

basti · 2012-03-12, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by Hamma

VanuMAXGuy has been removed and IP banned. He was in fact Marth Koopa.

Hah.

Mess with PSU = certain death!

UnknownDT · 2012-03-12, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by Stardouser

What's wallhumping? Do you mean just using third person to see around corners?

exactly

Knocky · 2012-03-12, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by kaffis

Higby, I just want to throw in -- this is a fair thing to say; however, I want to make sure you guys consider something when you're doing your demographics calculations and your focus groups:

There are a contingent of gamers who stopped playing FPS when the CoD/Battlefield (and, I would argue, going all the way back to CounterStrike) model of hyper-realistic, super-simulated gunplay became the fashion.

I don't play FPS anymore, but I'd be drawn back to a transparent, well-UI'd cone of fire bloom system in a heartbeat.

I don't know how many of us out there are like me, and if your research shows it's really a very small number and doesn't warrant balancing around, that's fine. I just want to ask you guys to not just assume we don't exist and that everybody considers the changes in the last 10 years of FPS to be 100% improvements.

Again.....FREE GAME.

You and all those like you can try it for FREE.

You have nothing to lose.

Redshift · 2012-03-12, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Hamma

VanuMAXGuy has been removed and IP banned. He was in fact Marth Koopa.

Maybe he heard you on AGN say you hadn't banned anyone in a while.

roguy · 2012-03-12, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by kaffis

There are a contingent of gamers who stopped playing FPS when the CoD/Battlefield (and, I would argue, going all the way back to CounterStrike) model of hyper-realistic, super-simulated gunplay became the fashion.

I don't play FPS anymore, but I'd be drawn back to a transparent, well-UI'd cone of fire bloom system in a heartbeat.

So you won't play a first person shooter because of the larger gun models when ironsighting?? Because it's exactly the same as crouching in older games (PS1, Enemy territory, Delta force, BF1942...) aside from the gun model.

That's kinda like saying that there's a large contigent of Pole position fans stopped playing racing games since F1 2010 made hyper-realistic, super-simulated racing the fashion.

Get with the times.

Stardouser · 2012-03-12, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by roguy

So you won't play a first person shooter because of the larger gun models when ironsighting?? Because it's exactly the same as crouching in older games (PS1, Enemy territory, Delta force, BF1942...) aside from the gun model.

That's kinda like saying that there's a large contigent of Pole position fans stopped playing racing games since F1 2010 made hyper-realistic, super-simulated racing the fashion.

Get with the times.

The issue for many people is not that the graphics evolve and allow weapons to be rendered in game with a lot more accuracy, it's the style of the gameplay. BF3 weapons are a lot more deadly than BF2 and it results in people spraying down for kills at long range instead of having to get closer to their opponent.

Having played PS1 last night, unless I just haven't figured out how to do it, you can't aim down sight, you just have zoom. Certainly ADS is better...but that has nothing to do with how deadly the weapons should be.

I don't know if this has exactly to do with what you and your quoted post are talking about, I simply mean that properly paced gameplay isn't something that evolves in the same way graphics do.

Gandhi · 2012-03-12, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by Stardouser

Having played PS1 last night, unless I just haven't figured out how to do it, you can't aim down sight, you just have zoom. Certainly ADS is better...but that has nothing to do with how deadly the weapons should be.

Yeah there was no ADS in Planetside, it's just a matter of managing your COF with bursts and less movement/crouching.

Biscuit · 2012-03-12, 04:38 PM

anyone calling dev's lazy deserve to have their corpse strung up on a cold tree in the middle of nowhere on esamir and used as drive by target practice for all 3 empires.

and can be treated as achievements much like looking for monoliths in PS1.

wasdie · 2012-03-12, 04:44 PM

Why is that a bad thing?

BF3 has the best arcady, military shooter controls of any game on the market. The weapons feel so damn perfect when you fire them and sound amazing. DICE spent a small fortune getting them just right. You don't want guns in 2012 to feel like guns from 2002, that would not be good. You would feel like something is missing and the game just isn't whole.

Animations, sound, graphics, effects, thanks to games like Battlefield and Call of Duty and even Halo the average gamer expects them to look and feel amazing. That's just modern game design.

I for one really like it.

Stardouser · 2012-03-12, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by wasdie

Why is that a bad thing?

BF3 has the best arcady, military shooter controls of any game on the market. The weapons feel so damn perfect when you fire them and sound amazing. DICE spent a small fortune getting them just right. You don't want guns in 2012 to feel like guns from 2002, that would not be good. You would feel like something is missing and the game just isn't whole.

Animations, sound, graphics, effects, thanks to games like Battlefield and Call of Duty and even Halo the average gamer expects them to look and feel amazing. That's just modern game design.

I for one really like it.

The way the weapons feel is good. But whether there should be a cone of fire that you need to crouch to stop is another matter.

As for animations, you might think that BF3 has done that well, and maybe they have in a certain way, but I've failed to vault 6 inch obstacles and been killed for it way too many times.

As for sound, the sound is immersive, no doubt. But how does immersion affect the gameplay? Well, in BF3's case, what has happened is that you cannot judge the direction of a shot by sound. What did they do about it? They made it so that anyone firing a weapon is automatically spotted to all enemies on the 2D map.

Fenrys · 2012-03-12, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by Stardouser

What's wallhumping? Do you mean just using third person to see around corners?

Yes, camping a corner with a close in weapon drawn.

It happened so much that chucking grenades around every corner became reflexive SOP.

roguy · 2012-03-12, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by Stardouser

The issue for many people is not that the graphics evolve and allow weapons to be rendered in game with a lot more accuracy, it's the style of the gameplay. BF3 weapons are a lot more deadly than BF2 and it results in people spraying down for kills at long range instead of having to get closer to their opponent.

Having played PS1 last night, unless I just haven't figured out how to do it, you can't aim down sight, you just have zoom. Certainly ADS is better...but that has nothing to do with how deadly the weapons should be.

I don't know if this has exactly to do with what you and your quoted post are talking about, I simply mean that properly paced gameplay isn't something that evolves in the same way graphics do.

As far as i understood it, he was talking about pretty much just ironsights.

But to address your argument I disagree that the excessively low "hardcore-mode" TTKs of BF and COD (that i hate too) are the current trend considering some of the other recent mainstream FPS'. Like Halo, Tribes:Ascend, Section 8, Bioshock 2, Brink, Left 4 Dead, TF2 to name the ones off the top of my head...

That said, IMHO PS1's TTK was just too long. Especially since the patch that added 50 extra armor to rexos.