Snipers in PS2

[Asp]

Originally Posted by Skitrel

Or, alternatively, scope in charge mechanic like TF2 sniper. Though in reality inaccurate scope in for 5-10 seconds has EXACTLY the same effect as a charge time - stopping the person from shooting immediately.

Since you'll either be standing/running/etc or crouching as the two base postures when you're fighting. Maybe to get the headshot kill on a light infantry you have to be crouching.. Any sniper actually sniping would probably take a position like that anyway, and it could potentially take away any quick scope shenanigans.. (at least make them more difficult) Though I'd say 1 shot kills should only ever apply to infiltrators and maybe light armour infantry, if they exist at all, IMO..

That said, I'd prefer to see snipers play a more expanded role too.. Upgrades or sidegrades to their scopes..

• Forward Observer: gives squad leader extended range on an OS strike (assuming they're in the game again). LOS drawn from the sniper.
• Recon: Sniper scoped-in-ability in on a facility (or area radius) illuminates enemy troops/vehicles on tactical map or minimap for squad leader
• Allow snipers (or a skill across multiple classes) the ability to "tag" enemy vehicles to appear on friendly minimaps for a specified time
• Disruption: Sniper ability to obscure enemy detection on the minimap for short time. (covering particular area being assaulted by teammates during facility raid for example)

Lots of other ideas, good and bad, but the main thrust is; give them other things to do than just trying to shoot someone in the head. Give them a multi faceted role.

[ItsTheSheppy]

Originally Posted by Tamas

It's not the role, but when you get 60% players go snipers it becomes a problem. So it's the share amount of them in some cases. I hope they make it hard, so only the better players can do really well, thus discouraging all the wannabee snipers from zerging and camping without playing any objectives or doing anything for the team.

Speaking as a guy who did almost nothing but snipe in PS1 (I was first to get Sniper Platinum on Vanu, 2nd overall (damn you Ambient)) it was rarely even close to 10% snipers overall. The vast, vast majority of players would just run around with rexo/HA.

[NewSith]

Originally Posted by Ruwyn

LOL at jumping away from a shot that you are probably too busy to know is on its way. If we see a guy running across a field jumping wildly I guess we know who it is.....

LOL, you don't have to jump literally. All you have to do is systemless fake-strafing, forcing a sniper to constantly recalculate the interception trajectory. I won countless duels this way.

This is on high contra to hitscan where you just have to "make a photo" at the right moment.

Originally Posted by ItsTheSheppy

Also, I really, really sad that sniper rifles sound like they might be kit-specific to infiltrators. Just another example of modern gaming being a lead-by-the-nose, no-we'll-decide-how-you-play-thank-you-very-much model.

I couldn't say it better...

2texico
We simply can't have the original sniping mechanic because:

• TTK is faster
• Zooming is not just mousescrolling now.

Also
Quickscoping is NOT a problem. Sorry for using a personal attack, but the fact that you die to a sniper is the result of you not taking the appropriate counter-measures. TL;DR: U suck at dodging - your problem.

[Aurmanite]

If someone is 15 today they probably haven't seen Enemy at the Gates.

The real assclown is the person who tries to lump an extremely diverse group of people together and, like an adolescent, calls that group stupid names.

You don't like snipers? Too bad. Sniping been in FPS's since FPS's been FPS's. Deal wit it.

[Kilmoran]

Originally Posted by ArcIyte

How do you want them to function?

They are easily my #1 pet peeve with Battlefield 3. No one wants them on their team, and no one wants to fight them. Sniping in BF3 is also very easy, so even the average joe can be incredibly annoying and put a huge damper on an otherwise fun game.

Snipers in modern FPS games are assclowns. Some 15 year old kid who just watched Enemy at the Gates. I think they should expand on the role of supporting marksmen instead of the "lone wolf" sperglord sniper. I want to see it played as someone who gathers intel for their outfit/empire and can help a firefight from long range.

They mentioned Infiltrators getting some kind of spotting efficiency certs. That's a step in the right direction as far as teamwork goes. An idea of mine is maybe they can fire special "tag" rounds that function kind of like a SOFLAM in BF3 or tracer dart in BFBC2, so that lock-on AT weapons have reduced or no lock-on time.

I completely agree. Sniping /IS/ support. IT always has been support. Snipers that are meant to be a "major offensive" are surgical for particular targets when they stay dead, but in a war situation on a field of battle ,they are support, not head hunters (per say...). Usually in a game like battlefield, i use my spotting and sensor throwing more than anything. Getting off shots to kill people when they are in a weak position or hunting my team.

Sometimes i have a very good K/D, sometimes i don't, but in either case my job is to make sure the team knows where the enemy is and is protected from those that are out of reach or flanking them.

[Kilmoran]

Originally Posted by NewSith

LOL, you don't have to jump literally. All you have to do is systemless fake-strafing, forcing a sniper to constantly recalculate the interception trajectory. I won countless duels this way.

Not in any way saying that Halo 1 was a sniping simulator in any way shape or form... but there were some glorious duels in that game with sniper rifles i had with some excellent players. Kills would be minutes apart sometimes even though the TTK in Halo was very fast.

In planet side, this tactic still worked of course, but because there was no such thing as head shots, you really didn't need to do this to survive a sniper encounter 1 on 1 unfortunately.

[Gandhi]

Originally Posted by Mjolnir

Really? Are you serious? Do you not understand how snipers function in warfare? The entire point of a sniper is to strike without warning and immobilize enemies by forcing them to take cover until they can identify the location of the sniper.

I don't much care about how snipers function in warfare. I care about playing a fun game, and in my opinion one shot kills aren't fun regardless of who's doing it. Range, being 'startled', having ways to take a sniper out, none of that has anything to do with it. If a sniper two shots me with a bolt action from way beyond my range that's fine, I deserved it for not managing to avoid his second shot. He beat me fair and square.

Lets take wallhumpers who took advantage of the third person camera in PS1. Did you find that game mechanic fun? Do you think it should make a comeback in PS2? I'll assume not, but why? After all, you could counter it by throwing a plasma grenade at every blind corner, and if you didn't you deserved to die for exposing yourself like that. Usually you could even send a squad mate around the back way to flush the guy out, if he was there. That's using proper coordination. And like you said it's an FPS game, you should be fine with getting killed like that on a regular basis. Just about every argument I've seen for one shot sniping could be applied to wallhumping just as well. But at the end of the day it wasn't fun and created some really stupid gameplay indoors, so it's been removed. And thank god for that.

[Aurmanite]

Originally Posted by Gandhi

I don't much care about how snipers function in warfare. I care about playing a fun game, and in my opinion one shot kills aren't fun regardless of who's doing it. Range, being 'startled', having ways to take a sniper out, none of that has anything to do with it. If a sniper two shots me with a bolt action from way beyond my range that's fine, I deserved it for not managing to avoid his second shot. He beat me fair and square.

Lets take wallhumpers who took advantage of the third person camera in PS1. Did you find that game mechanic fun? Do you think it should make a comeback in PS2? I'll assume not, but why? After all, you could counter it by throwing a plasma grenade at every blind corner, and if you didn't you deserved to die for exposing yourself like that. Usually you could even send a squad mate around the back way to flush the guy out, if he was there. That's using proper coordination. And like you said it's an FPS game, you should be fine with getting killed like that on a regular basis. Just about every argument I've seen for one shot sniping could be applied to wallhumping just as well. But at the end of the day it wasn't fun and created some really stupid gameplay indoors, so it's been removed. And thank god for that.

I think you should look into a different genre. You clearly don't like FPS's. StarWoW the old Republic is supposed to be pretty good.

Dying isn't fun. This is true for all methods of it. If you get sniped in the head and killed, you deserve it just as much as you would if it were 2 shots.

Your 'wall humping' comparison is crap as well, because so long as you were good at FPS's the advantage the 'wall humper' had was minimal. You, being a good FPS player, knew it was likely that someone was going to pop around the corner. There was only one place they could come from. Throwing a plasma grenade up would be good tactics with 3rd person or not.

First person shooters shouldn't be candy land carebear environments where randomness and skill are removed for the sake of 'fun'. Your definition of what is fun and what is not differs greatly from mine.

[BuzzCutPsycho]

Originally Posted by Aurmanite

If someone is 15 today they probably haven't seen Enemy at the Gates.

The real assclown is the person who tries to lump an extremely diverse group of people together and, like an adolescent, calls that group stupid names.

You don't like snipers? Too bad. Sniping been in FPS's since FPS's been FPS's. Deal wit it.

Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.

Anyway...

Snipers in FPS games are largely worthless and an annoyance for both teams. They are annoying for their enemies due to the talentless and annoying nature of how they operate and they are annoying for their allies due to the talentless and annoying nature of how they operate. Snipers contribute absolutely nothing to their team that another class could not only do, but do better. Sitting back 100m behind the fight and shooting random targets is not a benefit to your team because while you're busy missing 75% of your shots and not taking anyone out of the fight you're also depriving your own team of either another medic, engineer, support, etc.

A lot of mall ninjas in this thread will cite real life scenarios as if they're grizzled campaigners who've endured a century of warfare but in reality they're just the same as that Mountain Dew swelling sperglord on Youtube who has a channel devoted to nothing but CoD quick-scope montages. Don't sit there and bull shit me by saying that you play a sniper because it has some deep fucking impact on the game, just do yourself a favor and those around you and be honest - The only reason why you play a sniper is because you're not a team player.

You see the one thing a "sniper" in these games doesn't do that is very important is take and hold ground. Sure you might kill somebody from really far away but the odds are that person is just going to get ressed and move on to another objective. You're not creating a psychological impact on the enemy team and making them wonder who or where you are because kill-cam does that for me. You're not forcing me to leave the area because avoiding you and still defending my objective is just as easy as hiding behind a really big rock or moving from left to right really fast.

Let's take BF3 as an example. Do you know what makes the "recon" class useful? When people put away their sniper rifles and carry a SMG instead, and instead of running around trying to get kills from 200m away they place spawn beacons in critical locations and use either a MAV to spot / mark the enemy or a SOFLAM to nuke enemy tanks. Do you know how many recon players in BF3 actually do that? Very few. Very few actually exploit the important aspects of their class that make them a desirable asset for their team... most will just sit back with the M95 and try and get head shots while every point around them is lost.

The other thing that I find humorous is when I do play a game such as BF3 I not only get more kills and accomplish the "solo" mentality goal of a solid K/D but also accomplish a myriad of team-play goals at the same time.

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3...9/1/234889457/ - Take note of my score and the weapon I used to obtain it. I played that entire game with a "PTFO" mindset. Not only did I destroy everyone on the enemy team but I also proved to be a valuable asset to my team.

Did snipers prevent me from doing that? No. Did snipers inflict some form of virtual PTSD on me that prevented me from moving forward? No. They just sat back and annoyed me with their sniper shots.

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by Aurmanite

If you get sniped in the head and killed, you deserve it just as much as you would if it were 2 shots.

"Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me".

[Vancha]

Originally Posted by Mjolnir

Really? Are you serious? Do you not understand how snipers function in warfare? The entire point of a sniper is to strike without warning and immobilize enemies by forcing them to take cover until they can identify the location of the sniper. I am sorry you don't like being startled, but that is no excuse to nerf the snipers to oblivion and make them COMPLETELY USELESS, which is what you are asking for (more like whining about actually). If you don't like dying without warning every once in a while DO NOT PLAY FPS GAMES.

The problem with not giving snipers a one hit headshot kill ability is that it completely removes the psychological element from sniping. If you know NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO you will have time to react if you are shot at, you can just stand out in the open without moving with no consequences; if a sniper headshots you you can then take cover and still live, which is completely stupid. If you don't want to get sniped without warning, don't leave yourself exposed for extended periods of time.

There are plenty of ways to properly balance one headshot kill snipers other than nerfing them into oblivion (which disturbingly is what many of you are suggesting).

So are we to take it that you think that the Bolt Drivers in Planetside are completely useless?

[Aurmanite]

Originally Posted by BuzzCutPsycho

Words

My game, my choice.

You can be a super tactical awesome team playing objective winning strategist all you want.

I'll shoot you in the head from far away and enjoy it. Too bad for you.

Tell me that a deadly sniper in Team Fortress doesn't have a huge impact on the game.

Why do you think people hate sniping in Battlefield so much? They hate dying, snipers cause death, so they use all of your over-thought reasoning to explain away a legitimate game play choice.

[BuzzCutPsycho]

Originally Posted by Aurmanite

Tell me that a deadly sniper in Team Fortress doesn't have a huge impact on the game.

Is TF even a game anymore? Unless the "Deadly Sniper" has an impact on special hat generation I don't think people care.

[ArcIyte]

Originally Posted by Aurmanite

My game, my choice.

You can be a super tactical awesome team playing objective winning strategist all you want.

I'll shoot you in the head from far away and enjoy it. Too bad for you.

Tell me that a deadly sniper in Team Fortress doesn't have a huge impact on the game.

Why do you think people hate sniping in Battlefield so much? They hate dying, snipers cause death, so they use all of your over-thought reasoning to explain away a legitimate game play choice.

Luckily Higby and company seem to be an intelligent group of guys who care about the game, and I'm willing to bet they're not going to stain their game by adding something like the Battlefield sniper.

[Aurmanite]

Originally Posted by BuzzCutPsycho

Is TF even a game anymore? Unless the "Deadly Sniper" has an impact on special hat generation I don't think people care.

But they care more about it in Battlefield 3, which is a game, right? You're full of yourself. Admit it. You think the way you play is the way everyone should play.

Nice score in that game, though. Two thumbs up, for real.

Edit:

Luckily Higby and company seem to be an intelligent group of guys who care about the game, and I'm willing to bet they're not going to stain their game by adding something like the Battlefield sniper.

OSK's to this point have been confirmed.