Gameplay: Shaped Explosive Delivery System (Spare the Ride, Split the Driver) - Page 3

Hypevosa · 2012-05-24, 09:31 PM

Sticky grenades seem pointless to me since they'd either be OP for infantry to just carry around, and are relatively skill-less to use compared to my idea or C4, or they're useless due to the number you can carry and how little damage they do.

Baneblade · 2012-05-24, 09:36 PM

Why would someone carry your Idea over something else, like C4?

Toppopia · 2012-05-24, 10:20 PM

We should go with Toppopia's Anti-Tank Grenade idea. That is the only fair way to settle this.

Hypevosa · 2012-05-25, 01:04 AM

Originally Posted by Sobekeus

Why would someone carry your Idea over something else, like C4?

If they have the confidence and skill, an infantry man carrying this over C4 would be able to take more vehicles out of a fight faster than they could with your normal C4 load, even if it was only temporary. I'm imagining vehicles will take multiple C4 to destroy them. It also gives them better chances of victory if they come up against a vehicle 1 on 1.

While they may be deprived of the vehicle destruction bonus, they relieve at least a little of the pressure those vehicles attacking their side, buying, perhaps invaluable time for people to regroup and or even destroy the now abandoned vehicles. If we can use any of the nano systems vehicles regardless of faction, it also yields them said vehicle.

For a skilled MAX user with the SEDS, it also provides a means of quickly disabling (again, if only for a short while) vehicles on the battlefield.

So, in short, from the individual's perspective the item isn't so awesome (unless you find yourself in a 1v1 with a vehicle) since it only saves a little time and robs you of the destruction bonus. However, from the perspective of an entire battle it provides skilled infantrymen and skilled MAXes a means of more quickly relieving the pressure of enemy vehicles.

Gonefshn · 2012-05-25, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by Hypevosa

If they have the confidence and skill, an infantry man carrying this over C4 would be able to take more vehicles out of a fight faster than they could with your normal C4 load, even if it was only temporary. I'm imagining vehicles will take multiple C4 to destroy them. It also gives them better chances of victory if they come up against a vehicle 1 on 1.

I have a problem with this right here.
Combat roles. They are in the game for a reason. Rely on others around you with AV weapons, friendly MBTs, friendly MAXs to take out tanks.

If you are infantry shouldn't be able to take out "more vehicles out of a fight".
I'd say they shouldn't be able to take out a vehicle at all without the right weapons and not every class should be able to take out a vehicle that easily.
I just think it promotes an attitude of "I don't need you, I can do it myself"

This will be a HUGE game with tons of people all around you so individual fights will be few and if a tank rolls up on you and your LA better duck and run.

Hypevosa · 2012-05-25, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Gonefshn

I have a problem with this right here.
Combat roles. They are in the game for a reason. Rely on others around you with AV weapons, friendly MBTs, friendly MAXs to take out tanks.

If you are infantry shouldn't be able to take out "more vehicles out of a fight".
I'd say they shouldn't be able to take out a vehicle at all without the right weapons and not every class should be able to take out a vehicle that easily.
I just think it promotes an attitude of "I don't need you, I can do it myself"

This will be a HUGE game with tons of people all around you so individual fights will be few and if a tank rolls up on you and your LA better duck and run.

All classes have some at least limited form of AV, just as they all have some form of Anti-infantry. This is no different than allowing everyone to carry C4 other than it takes more skill to use and is more effective in the hands of those that can manage. No game like this would be fun if you came up against things that you were guaranteed to die from since it was basically a big game of rock paper scissors, and that's why all classes have a little overlap in their abilities.

Also remember that drivers can still exit the vehicle before the SEC even goes off, so it's not even guaranteed to be as effective as I'm illustrating. I'm just giving a best case scenario. It would, as with all things, be more effective when part of a squad, as making the driver bail and having everyone peg him at once or having someone else with a SEC toss one in the right spot right as he was re-entering his vehicle.

I'm imagining if we get 4 C4, we'd only get 3 of these.

Jinxsey · 2012-05-29, 09:42 AM

The game is ballanced around infantry being nessecary to cap bases. Armour is indended to block infantry advances, aircraft to provide CAS and kill tanks faster than PBI who are stuck lugging rocketlaunchers around that are temperamental and require skill and time to effectively kill a tank, which can use terrain to go hull down or activate counter-measures.

Armour exists to act as a breakthrough force, infantry need to be scared of them, if armour, particularly slow moving heavy armour is trivialised by the implimentation of devices carried by a significant perponderance of soldiers, armour no longer has a role and will be ignored, or relegated.

This idea of shaped charges fundamentaly skews game ballances in favour of infantry over armour, this is not good. Tanks should not be killed by individual soldiers operating solo, this is planetside, tanks should be killed by squads working as a team, or by aircraft, or other tanks! If an infantry soldier can carry a laser designator that aircraft can shoot guided missiles at, great! Teamwork! But 'lonewolf tank buster grenades' no thanks.

C4 exists as a placeable tank buster, if this is "different C4" it's not realy got a place. If it's "better C4" then it's worse, it's a BFR, and we've had them.

Hypevosa · 2012-05-29, 11:13 AM

With the ability to orbital drop anywhere on a continent you have a foothold (if I'm remembering right from the last alpha demo I watched), and the ability to squad spawn, the fact that your tank is still intact as an end result of the use of this device means you can get back in it and head back into battle, assuming you were distracted enough to not bail in the first place and just get back in. The extremely limited number of grenades an infantry can carry (that aren't restored by ammo packs I'd assume) means that, while infantry can possibly hold a tank at bay for a short while, they won't have the ability to make you have to go all the way back to base to spawn a new tank.

It's "Better" C4 in only that it takes more skill to use and is more effective when used skillfully. It leaves the tank intact for other enemies to get into and continue making your life hell, or for the original driver to drop to for the same purpose. It is an avoidable death for the driver who can bail and just re-enter the tank if they're not so distracted they can't hear the thing. It is highly limited in how many times an infantryman can use it. There are only 3 to 4 spots on any given vehicle where it would have the desired effect, anywhere else is a perfect waste of the equipment. It has a highly limited range compared to vehicles themselves.

The item is not any more unbalanced than C4, as it has its own liabilities, and can't even be used against infantry like C4 can. You need to look at the whole picture here.

Jinxsey · 2012-05-29, 11:50 AM

I am, a truism in gaming is that any weapon that relies purely on "mastery" for game ballance will become broken, because people can and will master it.

This grenade does not have any place in a game dependant upon teamwork, it can't be used to set up an ambush like C4, can't break up an enemy team's defensive position like a frag. It exists purely to give a skilled infantry soldier a way to reliably bail or knockout a tank. That kind of device has no place in planetside.

Hypevosa · 2012-05-30, 11:41 AM

I don't see how C4, a plantable explosive, ends up as more of a teamplay item on your end than this grenade does when all it does is kill people, while this flushes people out of vehicles meaning that a team can take out the drivers, and a smart team also has people ready to destroy the vehicle itself so it can't be used again. By specializing one person a little more than C4 does, it actually requires more teamwork to reach its fullest potential.

And, quite honestly, the idea of saying a skill based item has no use because people will gain skill with it and reap the rewards of their practice is sickening to me. Let's just get rid of sniper rifles since once people master them they'll be good with it, yeah?

Talek Krell · 2012-05-30, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by Hypevosa

a smart team also has people ready to destroy the vehicle itself so it can't be used again.

Wouldn't it make more sense for them to just do that first then?

The trouble here is that the device is poorly balanced, and ultimately pretty much pointless. It's either an instant kill or does nothing, doesn't serve any apparent purpose that isn't already fulfilled by C4 and AV MAXes, and the resultant gameplay as you describe it looks more like musical chairs than an FPS and only serves to highlight the inherent weirdness of teleporting in and out of vehicles.

And you're failing to see the point of the truism. If people have become so good with sniper rifles that they're damaging the game experience for others (instant kill headshots, perhaps?) then the sensible solution is to lower the maximum potential (nerf headshots) of the weapon, not remove it.

Toppopia · 2012-05-30, 04:47 PM

http://www.planetside-universe.com/s...ad.php?t=41314

This is what we need.

SouthernGoods · 2012-05-30, 09:48 PM

what armor piercing sniper bullets.. with x-ray scope

Limits- Rounds can only go through thin walls and light armor vehicles like reavers and lighting tanks...
X-ray scope is only 6x times zoom