Your personal observations

Figment · 2012-06-07, 09:35 AM

Making this thread so you can just make lists of things you noticed while watching the footage. What stood out for you in terms of gameplay implications and did you personally like this? This then is mostly intended as a "personal impression and opinion"-thread, rather than a discussion thread of other people's observations.

Since so many points are made, it might be wise to just stick to your own observations as it'd become too chaotic otherwise.

Thus if you disagree with someone else's observations, just post your own interpretations of what you think you saw instead, rather than provide quality judgements on others.

The goal is to help devs look through random people's eyes at how they experience the game as a whole and how random people feel the gameplay flows currently.

I'll start.

MBT drivers do not wait for gunners (I've not seen one do so!)
Sunderers are hardly used at all as a combat vehicle
The secondary gunner position is hardly used, even when they fight aircraft, few switch as they try to keep moving.
Ground vehicle drivers and pilots alike continuously bump and crash into foreign objects, friendlies, etc while driving in first person mode
When they drive in first person mode, they use about a 40 degrees turret range so they can drive forward.
When firing sideways they tend to come to a halt and turn their hulls towards the enemy because of locational damage, inducing static ground vehicle combat. This happens even if they have a gunner.
A lot of accidental suicides, but also a lot of people blowing themselves up on purpose to get back to a vehicle pad.
Galaxies are only used as troop carriers and not used as a nearby spawnpoints. Regardless of having the most hitpoints of all units and despite of having turret defenses, they simply die too fast to everything to be useful in any other role than PS1 style dropship.
People seem to prefer spawnpoints that give them direct, personal logistical benefits: the SpawnOnSquad (SOS) to get right back in the action and bypassing defenses and logistical time or the temporary forward barracks with vehicle pulling options.
The Galaxy tends to just wait next to another spawnpoint for safety and loading up troops, just like in PS1
Galaxy's guns are indeed in the locations of tail and far wings and thus have huge limitations on what they can feasibly fire at. They do not suffice for protecting the Galaxy once deployed.
Vehicles survival rate is very low, one grunt can quite easily kill a MBT or lighter aircraft
A lot of players eventually gravitating towards MAX units
Quite clear why MAX units probably won't be able to use vehicles later on due to bailing before vehicles die (an old known problem from PS1 with regards to aircraft/agiles and AA MAXes in a more general form)
Cheap units often not being chosen: not regarded as competitive units?
Infantry TTK is very fast, often it seems people don't even have time to realise they are being engaged from behind
Because people move so fast and erratic, very few people seem to use boomers.
Very few people wait for and use medics
Engineer's turrets are deployed inside, but overall don't seem to be very useful as their users tend to die on a flanking move or grenade, before they can turn to get a shot
Sunderers are NOT used for repair and resupply, partially because they do not get the chance: people and vehicles die too fast to make this useful
Lightnings can singlehandedly kill MBTs, whether or not they have a gunner
Aircraft explode the moment they hit an object and the suicide rate is therefore extremely high. This even occurs during landing attempts. Perhaps players should get a bit of slack with collissions (take less damage than 100%) and help with landing (extremely reduced impact damage in landing mode, perhaps linked to speeds).
Base defense structures are largely ignored both due to Spawn on Squad (which is very frequently happening, simply because there's so many people respawning)
Base turrets are typically ignored because people don't know when or how they can enter them. Possibly capture points interfere because they change hands constantly?
It's incredibly, almost ridiculously easy to reach capture points.
Vehicle combat mixes almost completely with infantry combat indoors (very few places vehicles can't go or deliver firepower)
A lot of bailing from vehicles by drivers right before they explode
Pilots bailing often die upon hitting the ground
Bunnyhopping does not occur and people trying to do so die fast
Infiltrators try to use sniper rifles for melee quick scoping combat
Infiltrators at least in the demo have nothing different to do from regular grunts: it's all about shooting other people and capturing positions at the same rate as grunts, just slightly different combat.
Infiltration in PS2 has very little to do with sneaking (mostly seen sprint relocations to surprise attack enemies rather than sneaking behind enemy lines) and gameplay is too fast and chaotic to even establish an enemy line to sneak behind. There seems little purpose to this side of the infil in PS2. That disappoints me a lot since it was 80% of my PS1 gameplay.
Infiltrators and other light classes can fight MAX units quite succesfully
Infiltrators cannot cloak continuously, at least not from the start
Combat is as chaotic as a Call of Duty Random Deathmatch: attacks come from any and all directions at once. There is no "flow" to it.
Often hard to distinguish friend from foe, especially for new players, but also because vision is regularly obscured.
Very few players use the "spot player" command (feature doesn't seem very useful because they can kill them before they spot them and it only interferes with their actions).
A lot of self-healing occurs, though it frequently takes a long time to kick in (attrition should be possible).
Few medics and engineers aid their buddies in comparison to PS1. I would chalk this up to people not wanting "to be the healer lackey while other people are having fun". Where in PS1 people would bring med or engi along for themselves, but then also would assist your buddies as you had it at hand anyway.
Compared to PS1, a lot of situational awareness is lost for infantry and people therefore get ambushed far more often (third person not only helped create ambushes, it clearly also helped to prevent ambushes as well)
Light assaults often throw down ammo for themselves, not so much for others
The randoms aren't really inclined to work together from the start. Instead focussing on their own benefits. IMO there should be more incentives to work together in the form of less individual options. For instance, having to hart in in groups, rather than alone.
Only the second day would people start working together. Might have been just me but they may have been provided with headsets the second day?
When people are too low for the more expensive personal vehicles, they still often won't pick the teamwork vehicles. There should IMO be a lot more attention to instructing players on when and how to use such vehicles and provide more strong incentives to work as teams.
Few people repair their own vehicles (could be they don't know it is possible, could be they don't get the chance to survive long enough to find a repair spot)

These are just some of the observations, some good, some bad, though I'd say most IMO confirm what was expected. I'm sure a lot of tweaking still needs to be done though.

EDIT: As said above, demo won't be comparative to beta, it's simply about initial impressions, observations and general pointers. Not fine-tuning.

TheRagingGerbil · 2012-06-07, 09:46 AM

A bunch of random newbs just trying to blow shit up. Beta will be be an entirely different game.

Stardouser · 2012-06-07, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by Figment

1. Galaxies are only used as troop carriers and not used as a nearby spawnpoints. Regardless of having the most hitpoints of all units and despite of having turret defenses, they simply die too fast to everything to be useful in any other role than PS1 style dropship.
1. People seem to prefer spawnpoints that give them direct, personal logistical benefits: the SpawnOnSquad (SOS) to get right back in the action and bypassing defenses and logistical time or the temporary forward barracks with vehicle pulling options.
2. Vehicles survival rate is very low, one grunt can quite easily kill a MBT or lighter aircraft
3. Infantry TTK is very fast, often it seems people don't even have time to realise they are being engaged from behind
2. Lightnings can singlehandedly kill MBTs, whether or not they have a gunner
1. Base defense structures are largely ignored both due to Spawn on Squad (which is very frequently happening, simply because there's so many people respawning)

These are just some of the observations, some good, some bad, though I'd say most IMO confirm what was expected. I'm sure a lot of tweaking still needs to be done though.

1. Yes, people do prefer to spawn that way. However, I observe that there is no organized defense of the base due to the way that it has been set up for E3. If there was an organized defense, squad leaders would be holding back more. And the flimsiness of Galaxies is a concern. Either deployed Galaxies will have more hit points, or a cloak, or something, or else sallying out of a sieged base to take them out will be easy. (or they will have to be deployed a full kilometer away)

Also, the openness of the base, with no contiguous walls, contributes to the problem.
2. Due to the lack of organization, PART of this is the fact that people rush into INDOOR sections of bases while in a tank. That's deadly, not sure that's wise to do just because you can do it now(and you couldn't in PS1). But, yes; vehicles, especially heavier tanks, are a bit weak.
3. My observation is that if you are a MAX, things are great. Maybe even HA. Light assault vs Light assault though, that's pretty low.

megamold · 2012-06-07, 09:50 AM

the main thing out i took out of the livestream is that there will be UI customization, not just moving the healthbar around but choice of different graphics for the indications.

to me this shows that they are taking their "customization is very important to us " statement pretty seriously, and gives me hope that this might bleed trough to other parts of the game.

and i think most of the points you make, while indeed seen in the demo are more in relation to player skill and knowledge of the game.
i wouldnt worry about any of those.

ringring · 2012-06-07, 09:50 AM

It is very difficult not to comment on a few of yours. I'd just say, what we have seen (probably) isn't representative of 'proper' play. After all, are looking through the eyes of a few people who have rolled up to a kiosk simply to get a general impression so I am not surprised when they pull a tank/lib they don't wait for a secondary.

The other thing is this was a false game in as much as various 'things' have been purposely tweaked. For example, the temporary respawn points, the out of bounds, non operational base turrets and I bet there are others.

However, I've seen a couple of things that have made me raise my eyebrows.

Tank/sunderer drivers switching to the other gun instantly and without having to get out of the vehicle to transfer.
Squad spawning apparently only has a timer on the individual as a limitation
Liked that the Jumpjet on the Light was of a short suration and therefore only used to get into a position.
Yes, it was chaos and I'd like to think some structure to the fights can be added either by outfit co-op or maybe by simply being a twoway rather than a threeway fight.
Flying looked fun
xp gain appeared to be a fixed value per 'action' rather than the variable one in PS1, which I'd prefer tbh

Novacane · 2012-06-07, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by TheRagingGerbil

A bunch of random newbs just trying to blow shit up. Beta will be be an entirely different game.

Yeah, don't look too hard at the actual E3 gameplay, they set up 3 spawns within a stones throw from the base so everyone was just instantly shooting at anything and everything. The towers weren't even in bounds.

The instant switching and one person MBTs do erk me a bit though.

Xaine · 2012-06-07, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by TheRagingGerbil

A bunch of random newbs just trying to blow shit up. Beta will be be an entirely different game.

Pretty much this.

While i appreciate what you're trying to do in this thread, the observations we got here are not really representative at all of the actual game, when you consider the map size and the fact that people at E3, for the most part, didn't really know what they were doing.

Beta will be a different game.

JHendy · 2012-06-07, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by TheRagingGerbil

A bunch of random newbs just trying to blow shit up. Beta will be be an entirely different game.

My sentiments exactly.

Figment · 2012-06-07, 09:54 AM

Yes, I'm aware it's not going to be the full-on actual gameplay. It's just observations for this demo.

A lot of it shows how new players think though.

Of course beta changes, but we can always help them with a headstart towards beta.

Stardouser · 2012-06-07, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by Xaine

Pretty much this.

While i appreciate what you're trying to do in this thread, the observations we got here are not really representative at all of the actual game, when you consider the map size and the fact that people at E3, for the most part, didn't really know what they were doing.

Beta will be a different game.

When closed beta starts, the game will probably be pretty close to what we're seeing now, minus the parameters set for E3. These observations will be made by closed beta testers a few weeks from now, we may as well make them ourselves now.

Kipper · 2012-06-07, 10:05 AM

I think the first few days of beta is going to be chaotic randomness as everyone finds their feet, explores, tries out the new toys etc.

People are going need a few hours or even a few days to get comfortable with it and start doing things more tactically.

The game itself is definitely going to need a few days or a couple of weeks while everyone gets organised and battle lines get established.

LightningDriver · 2012-06-07, 10:07 AM

Only one, as a hearing impaired player.

Where the heck is the chat box, and how am I going to communicate with others?

DerFurst · 2012-06-07, 10:12 AM

Pilots were crashing into the mid-air debris of the aircraft they just shot down.

Pretty good idea actually.

Aurmanite · 2012-06-07, 10:15 AM

Why would anyone pull a Sunderer to transport troops a few hundred feet?

This demo was a mad scramble to do as much as you possibly could in the time you had to play the game.

A lot of your observations lack the proper frame of reference.

chunkeymonkey · 2012-06-07, 10:24 AM

The only thing that irks me about the game right now is the massive amount of vehicle collision damage. The worst part of the story is for aircraft, and even with a VTOL system, the aircraft ends up taking a ton of damage just from trying to land.

And all the mad scrabble, CoD like fighting? It's an E3 build, remember it's consolidated to one area. The actual Beta/game will be way different.