Squad Spawn Suggestion

Grimshad · 2012-06-08, 03:39 AM

For squad spawn, there should be a piece of equipment(beacon) that must be placed with sky view.

This will prevent unlimited squad re-spawning, unfair spawning on squad members indoors, prevent players who are wearing specific armor types from carrying such a device and squad members spawning on them (like maxes or infiltrators), and will allow the enemy to stop the squad from spawning by simply destroying the device.

NOTE: I know some of these issues may already be addressed and maybe this isn't needed at all. Just throwing stuff out there.

P.S. While your reading this:
+Vehicle Enter/Exit animations
+Vehicle Hacking/Jacking

Demarkin · 2012-06-08, 06:13 PM

Love the idea of balance here, but it seems rather unecissary due to, for one, the cooldown, for two, many players want to insert themselves instantly into the battle, and in such a large battle map, squadspawn seems almost irrelavant to the outcome of a battle because of the sheer scale and the fact that all squads on either side(s) can squad spawn.

Zolan · 2012-06-08, 06:28 PM

I'm relatively sure they already have things in place that prevent constant squad spawning...

If I recall correctly from all of the videos I've seen, only squad leaders who choose the ability can have their squad mates spawn on them. This of course requires a particular certification into squad leadership related abilities.

When their squad members do spawn on them they drop down in a drop pod which takes about 10 seconds.

Additionally, given the drop pod, you can't spawn indoors... so that isn't a problem.

After they drop in, a considerable cooldown starts which prevents you from continuously using the squad spawn option. I believe the length of the cooldown is based on your class type. I remember a MAX in the E3 video who wasn't able to drop because he had done so a minute or so earlier.

Someone else probably knows more than me and could clear it up, but half of what I said is probably true.

MedicDude · 2012-06-10, 05:19 AM

Nix squad spawning entirely. It's the medic's job to revive, if you need to respawn, you either didn't have a medic, didn't protect your medic, or the whole squad is getting wiped. It's necessary in battlefield3 because you can gib/permakill players, which shouldn't be possible in planetside.

Drop podding in should be a battle entry feature from the sanctuary, and you shouldn't be able to drop pod directly on top of facilities, just like in the original PS1.

Saifoda · 2012-06-10, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by MedicDude

Nix squad spawning entirely. It's the medic's job to revive, if you need to respawn, you either didn't have a medic, didn't protect your medic, or the whole squad is getting wiped. It's necessary in battlefield3 because you can gib/permakill players, which shouldn't be possible in planetside.

Drop podding in should be a battle entry feature from the sanctuary, and you shouldn't be able to drop pod directly on top of facilities, just like in the original PS1.

I disagree. Squad spawning prevents a few things from happening on the field that made PS1 have some flaws; first of all the only method to spawn onto the continent was through captured bases or towers, which were either frequently under attack (massive tower battles that were just a clusterfuck in a lot of ways) or were very far away (the next base over meant that even if you spawned there immediately it would be a treck to get back to the battle). If you spawned at the sanc, it could anywhere from 3 to 10 minutes or so before you got back to the battle, so there was lots of waiting that imo was unnecessary and boring.

The way to make sure this doesn't just become a drop pod zerg on a base is to balance the cooldown timer. If squad spawning is turning into a zerg method, increase the cooldown timer. There's still a balance factor in this that when you squad spawn you don't get a vehicle; vehicles (particularly tanks) are a main method of controlling and advancing the line, Infantry's role was typically in the past composed of supporting tanks and other vics, and when it came to the assaults on the base then it was Infantry in the corridors and hallways. The squad spawning will give Infantry a better overall shooter experience, and balance it out so that it's not just tanks that are controlling and advancing the lines.

MedicDude · 2012-06-10, 01:00 PM

My main problem with drop pod usage is how much their frequency will expode in the larger battles. With 150-150 engaugements, you might expect a drop pod every single second. That's a lot of pods, a big danger for any galaxies flying over the base, which is ridiculous, you shouldn't have to worry about getting insta-killed by a drop pod as the pilot of a galaxy.

I understand why squad spawn wants to be implemented, but it's not necessary if you're going to allow players to be revived. The biggest problem with revives in PS1 was that you couldn't wait for a revive AND sit in the spawn timer at the same time. Fix the revive system and you can nix squad spawn.

If squad spawning is allowed, it's going to highly diminish the point of a revive system, and result in the same no-revive circlejerk we saw in PS1.

Further is the desync between expecting a lot of infantry combat indoors, but not allowing them to squad spawn indoors with their squad.

If squad spawn will be implemented, I'd like to see it done with deployable teleporter beacons, or simply a spawn-on squad leader option, if the squad leader hasn't been in combat for 4-8 seconds or so.

But, we still want drop pods, right? It should be worked into field combat somehow, I'd like to see pods dropping down in the field, or perhaps right outside the perimeter of bases, just not directly on top of bases, I think thats broken and is going to result in giant cluster-jerks with large battles.

Saifoda · 2012-06-10, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by MedicDude

My main problem with drop pod usage is how much their frequency will expode in the larger battles. With 150-150 engaugements, you might expect a drop pod every single second. That's a lot of pods, a big danger for any galaxies flying over the base, which is ridiculous, you shouldn't have to worry about getting insta-killed by a drop pod as the pilot of a galaxy.

I understand why squad spawn wants to be implemented, but it's not necessary if you're going to allow players to be revived. The biggest problem with revives in PS1 was that you couldn't wait for a revive AND sit in the spawn timer at the same time.

If squad spawning is allowed, it's going to highly diminish the point of a revive system, and result in the same no-revive circlejerk we saw in PS1.

I understand your point, but perhaps I didn't fully articulate what I said in my last post. You can nerf and/or buff the squad spawn till the end of Auraxis. Imagine now, in the 150-150 battle you described, if you're talking about squad spawning every second, you're assuming that, out of 300 players, 1 player is killed every second (which is quite a bit, but not unreasonable to expect). If they could instantly drop back into the battle (with the ~10 seconds of spawn selection and air time) then yes, that would be quite the shit show. Now let's say that there's a 5 minute (300 second) cooldown timer. If it works out exactly right, that's still one drop per second. But what if you had a 10 minute cooldown? First of all (and this is true even with a 5 minute cooldown) most players will just spawn somewhere else and hoof it into the battle or will grab a vehicle. Squad spawning would then only happen if you've got players that are only being killed every 9-9.5 minutes, as I think most people would be willing to wait 30-60 seconds to be able to squad spawn as opposed to spawning back at a base or tower or whatever. Also when you have the gal spawning and it's close by, those squad spawns will be even less frequent.

My point is that you're seeing a potential problem, and your solution is just to eliminate the origin of the problem. I think there are ways to overcome the issues you're talking about.

MedicDude · 2012-06-10, 01:29 PM

Drop pods damaging vehicles will be a major problem with larger engagements, and shouldn't grant the respawned player a huge tactical advantage because he landed on top of the base.

I think the instant solution to both of these problems is simply to prevent drop pods from landing within the walls of a base (autopilot that keeps them outside of the base, perhaps?). This would allow even MORE drop pods, perhaps shortening of the timer, and still allow all the satisfaction of pelting a vehicle with your drop pod.

Drop pod kills should be kamikaze only, if insta-kills are possible there needs to be a downside, and the idea that your drop pod explodes, killing everyone in a pretty fireball, is great. I wouldn't have any issues respawning again because I just nailed someone with my pod

.

Saifoda · 2012-06-10, 02:37 PM

That all sounds reasonable enough to me

guess we'll see in beta (and post launch -- easy enough to fix with a patch) if it's going to be a problem.

TheHypnotoad · 2012-07-18, 03:41 PM

The least we could do is to play with squad spawn on, and see how it plays out. I haven't played PS1, but from experience in BF2/2142, spawning on the SL usually guaranteed the squad staying together, otherwise you gotta hump from a base.

The SL in 2142 had an unlockable drop beacon, so when placed under open sky, dead squaddies could drop in. Concerning the point of having a revive system, as well as a squad spawn, players will generally revive when possible. If PS2 is as team oriented as the older BF games, then I expect medics have their work cut out for them.