Improvement: Health system ideas

Goldoche · 2012-06-09, 03:57 AM

I don't know how health will work in the full release of PS2, so I'll assume they'll keep the same system as the e3 demo. Hopefully regenerative health was just for the purpose of the demo, the same way they let MAXes entering vehicles.

I don't really like regenerating health because I think that it keeps people from using teamwork. It doesn't encourage people to play together and it removes some purpose to the medic class. That's why non-regenerative health is better. The major problem with it is when someone is nearly dead, it's often quicker to kill himself than to seek a medic. The solution to this is a regenerative shield that takes damage before your health bar. Now, someone nearly dead can still take some punishment thanks to his shield but he's not as tough as a fresh soldier. This shield is already in the game. Personally, I think that this system is perfect because the medic stays very useful and and a player that nearly died will still be able to take a few hits.

I do understand the advantages of regenerative health, though. Because it's free to play, the game needs to be dumbed down to similar, more popular shooters to attract the most players possible. If the game is hard to get into, it won't be able to attract enough players to fill those 6000 player servers. Also, regenerative health works very well in high paced games because it encourage players to take risks.

If the developers won't change the health system to regenerative shield/non-regenerative health, I tought of a few "happy middle" solutions. I'll start with the simpler ones and go on.

#1 Buff the shields, nerf the health bar so you'll have the same amount of total hitpoints. Use non-regenerative health. This is self explanatory.

#2 Make your health only regenerate to a X amount of HP. You'll still need a medic to be back at full health but less dependent on him depending on the amount of hp you can regenerate.

#3 Use the same health system as Mass Effect 3 / Halo reach / Resistance. The health bar is separated by a X number of points and you can only regenerate health to one of those. (Exemple : My health bar is separated by 4 and I'm at 40% hp. I'll regenerate to 50% hp. If I'm at 55%, I'll regenerate to 75%) This is similar to idea #2 but more punishing.

#4 This the most complex one but my favorite. Each class except MAXes would have an additional equipment slot for a morphine shot. When the morphine shot is used, the player will regenerate a percentage of missing health over a few seconds. If you use your morphine shot when you're close to dying it'll be more useful than if you use it when you have 80% of your health. It would work like the med-kits in left 4 dead. You can only have one or two with you maximum, a medic two or three times that amount. Using a morphine shot would require an animation of 2-3 seconds. If you already used your morphine shot, you can ask a teammate for his. The standard medic's healing gun would still be relevant because the morphine shots will never be able to heal you fully and because they would eventually run out since they are limited.

This idea is great for many reasons :

-It encourages teamwork unlike regenerative health.

-Medics are even more useful. They don't need to baby-sit players to help them.

-It reinforce the "logistics" idea. Morphine shots would be a limited resource so eventually squads would run out and they would need to be resupplied.

Other idea: Care-packages could be included into the game, dropped via liberator. If a squad runs dry of ammo, they could request a drop via VoIP. A liberator would load a care package from a facility and drop it near the squad. The care package would provide ammo, morphine shots and the box itself provide cover. It would self destruct 1 minute after used. This idea reinforce the "logistic" aspect of Planetside, communication and team work.

MightyMan · 2012-06-09, 09:09 AM

I agree, health regeneration is a bad mechanic. You can just run to the corner and wait there for 20 secs, having full health and shields without the help of a medic.
Here are my ways to do this:

1. Have shields to be regenerated over time (30 secs), but health can only be regenerated by medics, or a morphine shot as you stated.

2. Not really ideal but whatever: Both shield and health can only be regenerated by a special class (shield by engineer, health by medic).

3. In addition to my first 2 ideas, you can include a special shield/health regeneration station in each base which can be used ones in every 1 or 2 minutes and only by the faction who owns the base.

MAX's and vehicle's shields should only be able to be repaired by engineers.

Sirisian · 2012-06-09, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by Goldoche

It doesn't encourage people to play together and it removes some purpose to the medic class. That's why non-regenerative health is better. The major problem with it is when someone is nearly dead, it's often quicker to kill himself than to seek a medic.

I too want medics to be useful. It seems obvious to do that the shield should be weighted less than the health. Regenerating health doesn't stop a battle medic from performing their job if the shield is minimal. That is the shield should be for taking a few shots while you're moving around.

Originally Posted by Goldoche

#1 Buff the shields, nerf the health bar so you'll have the same amount of total hitpoints. Use non-regenerative health. This is self explanatory.

You're making medics worthless except for revival then.

Ideally the best system just involves a very slow health regeneration with a delay like they have right now. The shield must be weighted so that the total life bar is 25% shield with 75% health to make healing a meaningful mechanic.

Players that are moving around and fighting will take damage to their health, but can wait to heal slowly or be healed and get into combat instantly with a medic. Remember medics are more like battle medics now with their AOE heal. They just help a team, but a team doesn't 100% require them.

Goldoche · 2012-06-09, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by Sirisian

Ideally the best system just involves a very slow health regeneration with a delay like they have right now. The shield must be weighted so that the total life bar is 25% shield with 75% health to make healing a meaningful mechanic.

Health regeneration defeats the purpose of the shield. There's no point of having both shield and health to be able to regenerate. Also your health bar comes back to 100% in just 40 seconds, it's really not that long.

Originally Posted by Sirisian

Players that are moving around and fighting will take damage to their health, but can wait to heal slowly or be healed and get into combat instantly with a medic. Remember medics are more like battle medics now with their AOE heal. They just help a team, but a team doesn't 100% require them.

I thought that planetside 2 was supposed to be a teambased shooter, not call of duty. Removing the need to a medic reduce the chances to interact with your team. Having pure regenerative health go in contradiction the style of planetside 2. However, I understand the need to appeal to a broader audience so the game is not frustrating for new players. In each of my ideas, the medic have more purpose than the e3 health mechanic but they're still more forgiving than pure non-regenerative health.

I'd also like to have your opinion on my fourth idea!

Goldoche · 2012-06-09, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by Sirisian

I agree, health regeneration is a bad mechanic. You can just run to the corner and wait there for 20 secs, having full health and shields without the help of a medic.
Here are my ways to do this:

1. Have shields to be regenerated over time (30 secs), but health can only be regenerated by medics, or a morphine shot as you stated.

2. Not really ideal but whatever: Both shield and health can only be regenerated by a special class (shield by engineer, health by medic).

3. In addition to my first 2 ideas, you can include a special shield/health regeneration station in each base which can be used ones in every 1 or 2 minutes and only by the faction who owns the base.

MAX's and vehicle's shields should only be able to be repaired by engineers.

Thanks for your reply, I like your ideas. I do agree that MAXes and vehicles should only be able to be repaired by the engineer.

Rexdezi · 2012-06-09, 07:41 PM

Umm... in the E3 demo, the shield did recharge, and the health didn't... seems like you're idea has already been implemented! TIME TRAVEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Baneblade · 2012-06-09, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by Goldoche

Also your health bar comes back to 100% in just 40 seconds, it's really not that long.

Do you have any idea how many people I can kill in 40 seconds?

Goldoche · 2012-06-09, 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by Sobekeus

Do you have any idea how many people I can kill in 40 seconds?

I don't doubt your abilities, I just think that there's other ways to send you back in action quickly without removing teamwork elements. Read my whole post, especially my fourth idea.

MedicDude · 2012-06-10, 04:24 AM

Both health and shields should regenerate, OR both should NOT regenerate on their own. It really makes no sense from a design standpoint to have one that regenerates and one that doesn't. Regenerative hitpoints is for single-player and cover shooters ONLY, Planetside is neither. Regeneration discourages hit and run tactics (and therefore, lighter hitpoint classes) and diminishes the role of the engineer and medic.

Counterstrike doesn't use it, Team Fortress doesn't use it, Battlefield doesn't have it, COD has it but then again, you die in 2 shots in COD anyways. Heck, even most RTSs don't have regenerative hitpoints (unless you're the zerg

).

Regeneration: off with it's head.

Rexdezi · 2012-06-10, 05:55 AM

Shields should regenerate. Health should not. Vanu energy weapons should take shields down faster but take health slower, and standard weapons should take shields down slower but much faster taking down health.

MedicDude · 2012-06-10, 01:47 PM

I want to see the continuation of the role of medics supporting squishies, while engineers support the armor and MAXes.

The medic should be able to jolt your shields and replenish your health at the same time, classes could get shield regen abilities to make them more self-reliant, but restoring health should be the sole job of the medic. And shields should not automatically regenerate on their own.

MAXes and vehicles should rely primarily on their armor to get them through, perhaps it could even be the engineer's job to 'revive' MAX units, similar to how a medic revives squishies. I like the thought that MAX units never really die, they just take so much damage it incapacitates their armor systems.

Saifoda · 2012-06-10, 02:55 PM

I'd say no all around to health regeneration -- it diminishes the need for medics, and I think it detracts from the gameplay in general when you have a useless class, especially considering PS2 is using a class based system.

I think, however, that perhaps for certain classes (or maybe just all Infantry classes except MAX) that you can cert into carrying a piece of equipment or powerup or whatever that, when activated, will slowly replenish your armor. I'm not an expert of course on what's going on in PS2 dev right now, but again it could take up a utility spot so it's still based on opportunity cost.

Sirisian · 2012-06-10, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Goldoche

Health regeneration defeats the purpose of the shield. There's no point of having both shield and health to be able to regenerate. Also your health bar comes back to 100% in just 40 seconds, it's really not that long.

In a game like Planetside that's a long time to wait. If I'm fighting people and get down to extremely low health and there's not a medic around me I like the choice of being able to wait it out. The shield is a fast recharging system. You get out of combat for a second or two and it's already charging back up. It's designed to take the random bullets people might randomly shoot at you. The health system on the hand shows long lasting damage. With proper delays like 10 seconds before recharging and a slow recharge it still makes people semi-dependent on a medic to get in the battle fast.

Originally Posted by Goldoche

#4 This the most complex one but my favorite. Each class except MAXes would have an additional equipment slot for a morphine shot. When the morphine shot is used, the player will regenerate a percentage of missing health over a few seconds. If you use your morphine shot when you're close to dying it'll be more useful than if you use it when you have 80% of your health. It would work like the med-kits in left 4 dead. You can only have one or two with you maximum, a medic two or three times that amount. Using a morphine shot would require an animation of 2-3 seconds. If you already used your morphine shot, you can ask a teammate for his. The standard medic's healing gun would still be relevant because the morphine shots will never be able to heal you fully and because they would eventually run out since they are limited.

Not really a fan. I suggested in another thread that medics should heal players with syringe shots to start a rapid heal instead of the AOE heal which is similar to this concept. I don't feel like individual players need a way to heal themselves outside of the regenerative healing and medics. Honestly having to press a button to start healing is very much on the level of medkits in Planetside 1 where you have to press a button to heal and it got repetitive and added very little to the gameplay.

OutlawDr · 2012-06-11, 11:54 AM

The most fun and interesting interactions between a medic and a player needing health is during a firefight or right after the firefight. With current system, you would still have need of a medic for this.

Its not fun having 10% health and needing to chase down a medic somewhere and possibly getting killed in the process. Sure, removing health regen does increase the importance of a medic, but in a dull and uninteresting way.

I think many of you are underestimating the usefulness of a medic during a fight, and right afterwards. They allow squads to stay up longer on the field and recoup faster after a fight for the next objective. Im not too worried about the medic even with health/shield regen.

Memeotis · 2012-06-11, 02:58 PM

I'm personally in favor of a system where a medic is immensely useful, but players do not entirely depend on him. In other words, I hope this game has a health regeneration system that will not dimish the medic's importance in any way during engagements, but if a player has not been hit for 40 seconds (which means that fight in which he got hurt is effectively finished) his health will start to regenerate.