Planetside 2 and Professional Gaming - Page 9

Top Sgt · 2012-06-09, 11:49 PM

Could not care 1 bit about E-sports games are mean't to be fun

not think it's a "sport"

E-sports are one of the reasons gamers today play like A-hats..abusing glitches, OP items and other tool typer play. because everyone wants to think they are "elite" and "1337" "MLG"

Like it or not It's my opinion from years of PC and console gaming.

Furret · 2012-06-10, 12:14 AM

I think a lot of you are missing the point, because i think the first post was poorly worded.

First off, when we say e-sport, we're not talking massive corporations with sponsorships, etc. Just because something is an e-sport doesn't mean it has to be massively marketed and aimed solely at making money. These events don't have to take place in a massive stadium in front of hordes of fans, they can easily take place online.

Second off, I don't understand why people laugh at 'professional gamers'. I'll agree it's not easy to make a living playing a game, but if you think good professional starcraft broodwar players haven't won a shit ton of prize money, you need to do a bit more research.

How about this:

Every 3 months or so, one group (be it SOE or an affiliated group) organizes an 'outfit war' tournament. This tournament consists of outfits of 30-50 players each competing in outfit vs outfit situations on an INSTANCED (keep a firm hold on your drinks please) map including two identical bases with two identical towers. These two outfits each start in possession of one base and its tower, then play REGULAR PLANETSIDE with the intent of taking over the other outfit's base. An overhead map showing both outfits personnel and vehicles would be available to spectators and commentators.

Now for all of the popular arguments against this idea:

"It's not what planetside is about."

This argument has no merit. If you don't enjoy a competitive instanced planetside, you don't have to play it.

"It will take away too many players from the supposed persistent world."

If these events took place only every three months, and outfits did not all compete at the same time, a MAXIMUM of 100 players would be removed from the game at any time. If Planetside 2 is a good game, then 100 players for an hour or so will mean nothing in the large scale. It has been stated that there will not be an e-sports scene in the early stages of the game, when 100 players would actually make an impact.

"It will make balancing the game more complicated."

It will not assuming instanced planetside is played the same way as persistent planetside. And even if there are massive differences in play styles between persistent and instanced, whats to say instanced planetside cant have its own separate patches and/or balance changes.

"It will ruin the community by making everyone over-competitive."

Competitive assholes will be competitive assholes regardless of the existence of an e-sports scene. At least with an easy way to prove your mettle, you can shut them up for good.

Now for the good reasons for competitive planetside:

- Its a good e-peen measurement tool.
- If it becomes even moderately popular, it will not only give planetside some extra advertisement, but it will showcase the most important part of planetside: strength in coordination.
- Newer players can learn tactics from the veterans/pros (I believe these terms to be interchangeable in a game where knowledge and intelligence is more important than sheer individual skill).
- Easier-to-manage (and likely play) fantasy planetside.
- ITS FUN! If you haven't competed in anything before, competition is a great adrenaline rush, and what's better than competing while playing your favorite game?
- If you don't like it, IT DOESN'T AFFECT YOU!
- If outfits are able to purchase more cosmetic items for these 'outfit wars', (Teams are not restricted to their outfit colors, one team can be fucking rainbow if they want ;D) SOE will make more money, and would presumably put it right back into development or advertisement.

So lets put all our biases and personal opinions aside, and think about whether this will do more to harm or hurt the game, and make our decision that way.

TaintedPaladin · 2012-06-10, 12:26 AM

I for one fondly remember the outfit wars going on. Still I wouldn't want them to become so prevalent that they take away from the main event.

Irish · 2012-06-18, 11:01 PM

I realize that with just the slight mention of "e-sports" it takes a select group of planetside gamers and simultaneously unites them against he who uttered the words. i realize within the current structure of e sports, it was and looks to stay mostly a small scale 5v5 type niche market. since planetside is going to be a kinda a catalyst in what i feel the fps genre is heading towards wouldnt it be nice to see it catapulted to new heights by capturing a NEW genre of e sports?

i played ps1 for about 6 years, from 03 to 09. while playing i also played competitive counter-strike, hauling my comp to lan tournaments and partaking in CAL. of course i had my share of wow, and played in the arena tournaments they offered (play games for its competitive nature)

now before you all flip out, open your mind to this possibility.....so here you are taking your outfit seriously (like i intend to see most doing) and really use awesome tactics and strategy coupled with twitch shooting (or support if thats your thing) and use it to enforce dominance on your opponent. currently the reward is changing the bases color to your factions, and maybe some smack talk. while playing maybe you record some sick shots or battles to show off your talents on you tube, striving to be "famous" in game, earning that notoriety. imagine taking the time invested into the game and putting it towards something BIGGER.

i dont want to get into the details of how the e sports setup would be for a game like planetside, because with the support and MONEY that comes from the fame competetive gaming brings to a title, comes potentially new funding and attention from the game creators....to feed into the hysteria.

tournaments bring in HUGE numbers i dont see why we cant be open to the idea of 50v50 or 100v100 hell even more outfit style battles, on custom BALANCED maps, in a lan setting.

could you imagine the coverage, and beauty this game can bring if it would be covered by MLG or sponsored by intel.....

this is my opinion on why i think videogames are fun, they are fun because they are competitive..i dont play rpgs by myself, i play to compete against other players

planetside represents all sides of the TYPE of people that play games, and with the release of ps2, your going to see competitive twitch gamers, and slower less skilled shooters playing the support role. IMO your going to see the D&D nerds, and the CS players all under one roof....i guess now thats like saying the World of tanks guys, and the cod/bf crowd... obviously im the latter.

can someone post a pic of a massive lan...im totally a forum noob

PhoenixDog · 2012-06-18, 11:19 PM

It just wouldn't work. I read the whole thread and sorry...But no.

Planetside is designed to be a huge game with a massive amount of people. Oh sure there will be small skirmishes across the map but the entire thing is designed around the Meta-Game. Having a 50v50 or 100v100 e-sports thing for Planetside is like someone using the "Okay 1v1 me" in a team-designed game. I certainly get where you're going...And applaud you thinking of how to incorperate something like e-sports with PS2...But with the massive scale of the game and how it's designed...You wouldn't be able to get the same ebb-and-flow of the game at that low of scale.

Even when XoO ran outfit assaults every week...We could get 100 of us going...No matter how good we were or how coordinated...We still relied on the rest of the Vanu to aid us.

Synapse · 2012-06-18, 11:25 PM

Logistics aside, I think there's a reason RL games dont have teams much over a dozen.

That seems to be the sweet spot for what people can follow in terms of complexity, and what people can identify with in terms of a "team."

I think if you went bigger than that, people would start rooting for squads instead.

zomg · 2012-06-18, 11:37 PM

Although I like the idea of sort of competitive 50v50+ play in the style of PS2, I do get the feeling of it being a nightmare to coordinate for anyone. Heck, just consider sending your team to play at a LAN party...

I'm also not sure if it would be very spectator friendly in a way. In order to accomodate strategic gameplay and the player amounts, the maps would need to be relatively large and there would be a lot going on simultaneously. That in turn would make it hard to follow what's going on - perhaps you have a favorite player or squad, but they can't be covered all the time.

In games with small teams the problem doesn't really show and solo performances can also be highlighted more.

I can imagine there being the possibility of doing the sort of videos you talk about though. It would indeed be fun to watch well coordinated plays by outfits to capture bases and such. However, to properly capture tactics and such, I don't know if the individual POV of a single player would be the optimal position, and instead requiring a "free view" spectator/recording/playback system for nicer angles and scenes.

super pretendo · 2012-06-18, 11:41 PM

What's the point of it? Sounds like tryhard garbage. E-sports are dull because they demand a very simplistic set of tools and anything fun is instantly removed in the name of balance. It's the opposite of what makes games enjoyable.

Irish · 2012-06-18, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by PhoenixDog

It just wouldn't work. I read the whole thread and sorry...But no.

Planetside is designed to be a huge game with a massive amount of people. Oh sure there will be small skirmishes across the map but the entire thing is designed around the Meta-Game. Having a 50v50 or 100v100 e-sports thing for Planetside is like someone using the "Okay 1v1 me" in a team-designed game. I certainly get where you're going...And applaud you thinking of how to incorperate something like e-sports with PS2...But with the massive scale of the game and how it's designed...You wouldn't be able to get the same ebb-and-flow of the game at that low of scale.

Even when XoO ran outfit assaults every week...We could get 100 of us going...No matter how good we were or how coordinated...We still relied on the rest of the Vanu to aid us.

well understandably the meta game wouldn't really be there, but as far as tactics for a single base assault or continent takeover, everyone would have to be on a even playing field to begin with resource wise.

moreover a more pressing matter of organizing a group to show up for lan would be difficult....forcing it to be more like wow arena status, a single tournament server. where the elite players and outfits could go and compete faction to faction. maybe with a time limit, say a week to cover the most percent of the map or something. maybe e sports is a bad title, im just trying to make it competitive. in a way that is different then what the players can provide....ideas > arguments

Irish · 2012-06-18, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by super pretendo

What's the point of it? Sounds like tryhard garbage. E-sports are dull because they demand a very simplistic set of tools and anything fun is instantly removed in the name of balance. It's the opposite of what makes games enjoyable.

like i mentioned before, everyone has their own playstyle....yours is not similar to mine.

Otleaz · 2012-06-18, 11:54 PM

No reason to rule out a specifically designed map. A small map scaled for 100-200 players meant for 2-5 hour "wars".

zomg · 2012-06-18, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by Otleaz

No reason to rule out a specifically designed map. A small map scaled for 100-200 players meant for 2-5 hour "wars".

Good luck getting 100-200 players to be around at the same time for 2 to 5 hours... It would rule out almost all but the most professional and organized groups.

Even in Counter-Strike where teams are 5vs5 or 6vs6 it can be hard to get a group of people to show up at the same time. Of course the teams are smaller, but the time requirement from them is smaller as well.

I mean it's cool and all, but it doesn't feel very practical to me

moosepoop · 2012-06-18, 11:58 PM

planetside 1 gave me a strange fuzzy feeling of epicness, the feeling of participating in a war, and being united with my teammates. competitiveness isnt what made planetside famous, and isnt the hook that draws people in the game.

in a grand battle, individual actions does not matter, it is the action of the whole faction that affects the battlefield in planetside. theres no way to isolate e sports events for the rest of the game.

PhoenixDog · 2012-06-18, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by Irish

im just trying to make it competitive. in a way that is different then what the players can provide....ideas > arguments

I'm not sure if you played PS/1, or are/were invested in the game...But for a lot of veteran players the game was always competitive enough.

I can only speak for myself...But when I play I have a very internal hatred towards the NC and TR. Whenever I am on the game I want nothing more than to turn the whole world Purple and Teal. Many in my outfit feel the same way. When you have your faction hate boiling the game is much more competitive. This is more than just *what the players provide* because it's beyond just them. I hate every single person wearing red or Blue. It's beyond just a will to win, it's a need to win. You can't get much more competitive than that.

Again however...I'm just speaking for myself.

Irish · 2012-06-19, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by Otleaz

No reason to rule out a specifically designed map. A small map scaled for 100-200 players meant for 2-5 hour "wars".

thats what im saying, or a weekend event, with resources orrr special vehicle access for the week

imagine the elite of your factions outfits competing to bring the rewards home.... this is more off e sports, but more of a structured competitive aspect