Gameplay: Spotting done the right way

Immigrant · 2012-06-10, 07:22 PM

Ok, guys I've been reading the spotting thread in PS2 discussion sub-forum and I've got an idea how it could be done correctly to avoid all possible exploits.

You'll always be able to inform your comrades via VOIP but that method lacks the visual component and we all know that picture is worth a thousand words.

Here is my idea:

WHAT CLASSES SHOULD HAVE IT? Infiltrator and Light Assault only should have this ability.

HOW IT SHOULD BE DONE? When person get in position and presses "spot button" his visual input should be sent to screen of all the comrades in his squad. As soon as spotter starts moving quickly or firing video link should be terminated.

WHAT PROBLEMS ARE AVOIDED? Blind spotting in the dark or through the vegetation. Doesn't not make aiming easy simply informs other of incoming threat. Thus can't be exploited for solo use.

POSSIBLE PROBLEMS? This kind of spotting would actually require good positioning from a spotter to be useful for this comrades (i.e. it would be the best if spotter was up high and had both his mates and incoming enemy in his view). But this could actually be a good thing imo since it would require skill and effort to be useful. If you spotted blindly in the dark your mates would get nothing useful.

Here is a preview how it should look:

(this screen makes no sense; NC guy showing TR spot-cam; it's just an example made from two 1st person screenshots I found)

p.s. please discuss, try to find flaws and point to them, also vote it up if you like the idea.

Ratstomper · 2012-06-10, 07:37 PM

Sounds interesting. I like the idea of giving sniper infiltrators a little more reason to be in a squad. What if instead of a feed, you could send a snapshot of where a target is? For instance, you'd get the little screen that pops up with a reticule or box around your spotted target, but it's just a picture instead of a video or an easymode arrow on your HUD. That way snipers can find and show general locations of weakpoints or targets of value from range while providing ranged support to his squad from outside the base.

Saifoda · 2012-06-10, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by Ratstomper

Sounds interesting. I like the idea of giving sniper infiltrators a little more reason to be in a squad. What if instead of a feed, you could send a snapshot of where a target is? For instance, you'd get the little screen that pops up with a reticule or box around your spotted target, but it's just a picture instead of a video or an easymode arrow on your HUD. That way snipers can find and show general locations of weakpoints or targets of value from range while providing ranged support to his squad from outside the base.

I like this addition to the original idea.

I might also suggest that we think about the idea of just having the infiltrator have this ability. There's plenty that the light assault class already has over infils (better weapons [yes snipers have their place, but just in general gameplay...], jump pack, better armor).

Stardouser · 2012-06-10, 07:45 PM

Hm. That's cool actually. Though, I assume a squad would have a way of designating one person to do it so there aren't competing spotters.

Immigrant · 2012-06-10, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by Ratstomper

Sounds interesting. I like the idea of giving sniper infiltrators a little more reason to be in a squad. What if instead of a feed, you could send a snapshot of where a target is? For instance, you'd get the little screen that pops up with a reticule or box around your spotted target, but it's just a picture instead of a video or an easymode arrow on your HUD. That way snipers can find and show general locations of weakpoints or targets of value from range while providing ranged support to his squad from outside the base.

Snapshots could get spammy imo. Also I don't really understand the exact implementation... the pop up, reticule part and all.. could you make a quick visual mock up like I did?

Immigrant · 2012-06-10, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by Stardouser

Though, I assume a squad would have a way of designating one person to do it so there aren't competing spotters.

Yes, solution would be that if one guy is spotting already others couldn't do the same then until his link is terminated. This problem would exist in auto-squad formed squads anyway.

Also it would be good if it could be turned off by individuals who don't want to use it altogether i.e. you want to play solo in automatically assigned squad to prevent random bad/spammy spotters from bothering you.

Duddy · 2012-06-10, 08:02 PM

If I may make a suggestion based upon my pondering from the "infil" thread.

I think that instead of a picture at all, when someone has been "spotted" it should produce a transparent "ghost" of their character model in the location that they were spotted.

The idea being that creating an immobile "ghost" image that lasts for a short duration would serve the same effect as saying "HA behind that box over there" but visualise it in an easily understandable form.

The closest analogy I can give is that of the "last known location augment" from Deus Ex: HR. I tried to find a video or imagine, but surprisingly an example of that specifically is hard to find.

Ratstomper · 2012-06-10, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by Immigrant

Snapshots could get spammy imo. Also I don't really understand the exact implementation... the pop up, reticule part and all.. could you make a quick visual mock up like I did?

It would have to be something unobtrusive like the mini screen above. I don't really have the screenies to make a mock up, but my idea is to give essentially a screen cap of an area (zoomed for snipers) and a reticule around all specific targets in the picture (enemy soldiers, MAX units, vehicles, turrets and capture points). Maybe even an on screen arrow to show where the spot is that is in the picture. That way squads can not only see what enemies may be around the next corner, but also where they're hunkered down and what firepower they may have.

I think spotting may be more of an upon request service. I don't see infiltrators walking around spamming pics of enemy fortifications. It may even be nice to have a slight cooldown on it. That way you could have multiple infiltrators with scopes overlooking bases (or even just sneaking around inside the base) providing visual intel on fortified areas (on offense) or incoming forces (on defense).

For instance, a squad leader wants a pic of a well guarded place, and the infiltrator gets one that provides info on how best to overcome defenses (a good way to keep snipers form camping on one spot, as they'll have to move to get good vantage points). Alternatively, you could have sniper infiltrators perched on walls or high points to acts as sentinels of sorts and reporting, with pictures, enemy forces that may be flanking or attacking from unexpected places.

What I don't want is a continuous, single-target "Get this guy because I've spotted him and now there's an entire squad who knows exactly where he is". That would only be a cheap mechanism and wouldn't give any real tactical benefit.

Originally Posted by Saifoda

I like this addition to the original idea.

I might also suggest that we think about the idea of just having the infiltrator have this ability. There's plenty that the light assault class already has over infils (better weapons [yes snipers have their place, but just in general gameplay...], jump pack, better armor).

I would agree. Not that I don't want other classes to be able to do it, but I think they will have their hands full with all the other stuff they have to do. It just seems natural for infiltrators to act as spotters.

Ratstomper · 2012-06-10, 09:04 PM

I was thinking something kind of like this.

I couldn't find a proper in-game screenshot, but it would be essentially a screencap of the infiltrator, but instead of the infiltrator's HUD, it would have reticules on all visible targets in the picture and maybe a text box on the side giving a recap of everything spotted. This picture and a waypoint of where the picture is would be sent to the squad leader who could take a look at it, gain quick info on enemy forces and then give orders to the squad from there. Once he is done with it, it just gets deleted. These pics can be taken from the standard view or when zooming with a scope.

Cuross · 2012-06-11, 02:08 AM

I have actually not played a game with a "spotting" mechanic, so this is all new to me, but from what I see, my only issue is that the spotter could potentially see through some forms of cover which is why I like the idea of a screenshot better. What I mean is that I don't like the idea of a spotter being able to spot through vegetation or even vehicles, and I say this because I don't know if the game would be able to say what kinds of cover are "transparent" because as we all know, grass and leaves are pretty much fluff on a map. If the game can tell the difference and actually does stop your line of sight at grass and leaves, then I like the idea of spotting in the last picture. Otherwise, the screenshot is a great idea, probably a greater idea since it physically shows the squad what they're up against.

Forgive my ignorance on the subject, but I like the screenshot best

Ratstomper · 2012-06-11, 02:13 AM

Originally Posted by Cuross

I have actually not played a game with a "spotting" mechanic, so this is all new to me, but from what I see, my only issue is that the spotter could potentially see through some forms of cover which is why I like the idea of a screenshot better. What I mean is that I don't like the idea of a spotter being able to spot through vegetation or even vehicles, and I say this because I don't know if the game would be able to say what kinds of cover are "transparent" because as we all know, grass and leaves are pretty much fluff on a map. If the game can tell the difference and actually does stop your line of sight at grass and leaves, then I like the idea of spotting in the last picture. Otherwise, the screenshot is a great idea, probably a greater idea since it physically shows the squad what they're up against.

Forgive my ignorance on the subject, but I like the screenshot best

I thought the same. It just seems cheesy and not very helpful to do the traditional spotting thing. If I were a squad leader, I would much prefer to have a spotter mapping out an objective so I knew what my squad was up against before I rushed in.

Since I'll most likely be playing a sniper, I really want something to do besides just sniping. It would make my job a valuable asset to the team instead of just another guy with a gun.

Toppopia · 2012-06-11, 03:30 AM

Originally Posted by Duddy

If I may make a suggestion based upon my pondering from the "infil" thread.

I think that instead of a picture at all, when someone has been "spotted" it should produce a transparent "ghost" of their character model in the location that they were spotted.

The idea being that creating an immobile "ghost" image that lasts for a short duration would serve the same effect as saying "HA behind that box over there" but visualise it in an easily understandable form.

The closest analogy I can give is that of the "last known location augment" from Deus Ex: HR. I tried to find a video or imagine, but surprisingly an example of that specifically is hard to find.

From Splinter Cell: Conviction

You mean something like this? This would be cool. And would provide a rough location to where an enemy is instead of a constant maker on someones head or a pop up screen. I do like the pop-up screen, but most people will probably won't little stuff on their interface.

Red Beard · 2012-06-11, 03:37 AM

Originally Posted by Toppopia

From Splinter Cell: Conviction

You mean something like this? This would be cool. And would provide a rough location to where an enemy is instead of a constant maker on someones head or a pop up screen. I do like the pop-up screen, but most people will probably won't little stuff on their interface.

This would be extremely cool...it could be how a infil looks when viewed through darklight, but maybe a different colour (Red?) so as to not confuse them?

Dagron · 2012-06-11, 03:40 AM

Originally Posted by Duddy

I think that instead of a picture at all, when someone has been "spotted" it should produce a transparent "ghost" of their character model in the location that they were spotted.

The idea being that creating an immobile "ghost" image that lasts for a short duration would serve the same effect as saying "HA behind that box over there" but visualise it in an easily understandable form.

Agreed. Though however useful it might be, i wouldn't want ghosts to clutter the area too much, specially if the Infil spams the ability (it could decrease performance). So the faster it gets spammed, the quicker ghosts should fade.

Originally Posted by Toppopia

This would be cool. And would provide a rough location to where an enemy is instead of a constant maker on someones head or a pop up screen. I do like the pop-up screen, but most people will probably won't little stuff on their interface.

Yep i hate the head marker, but i wouldn't want things popping up in my face too much.

Immigrant · 2012-06-11, 04:09 AM

Guys, guys wait and think a bit...!!! For christ's sake! even though it's "cool" it actually reverts to blind-spotting exploit problem so actually big no! that shadow/ghost idea is as bad as 3d spotting. the whole point is not to "mark" the spotted guy with anything for everyone on the main 1st person screen. Good snipers could just spot a guy through bushes or in the night and fire at his "ghost" immediately...so we have the same crap all over again. Also it a lot of work, devs would have to implement a whole new system... putting stream camera to the corner of your screen is way easier.

Yes main problem with pop-up comm link would be getting used to it, and player would have to look away from the center of the screen to get the info, but I believe this would be the best solution we heard of so far.

Ratstomper's idea with reticules is good. However I don't like the screenshot part since it would be tricky to always get a good screenshot in first try and provide the necessary intel. thus it could get spammy (guy misses, makes bad screenshot, gives no useful info and has to to another one again), com-link camera (live stream) is superior to static screenshot in every way, and is as easy to implement.

I will revise this part to include that idea:

HOW IT SHOULD BE DONE? When spotter gets in the position and presses "spot button" his view turns to camera mode something like motion sensor which marks the targets near the center of spotter's field of sight with reticules (target would have to be at least 3-4 seconds in the center of his screen to get marked). In this mode spotter cannot shoot or move, he can only tilt his view up-down and left-right so he can follow the target to some extent if it moves off screen. After that if spotter locates some targets or even before he can choose to press the "transmit button" when he wishes to stream this piece of video intel directly to his team(squad).

IMPROVEMENTS we got with this correction are: 1. camera mode looks like looking through binoculars so the weapon of the spotter is removed as a obtrusion in the screen. 2. reticules will help others spot the enemy spotter is try to show them more easily so they won't have to look hard to find him in their "spot cam" pop-up window. 3. this kind of camera will actually be of some assistance to the infiltrators too (a help tool of a sort) since they will be able to use it to find targets more quickly when sniping (especially at night), but they won't get easy aim feature since they will have to change to the "normal mode" before actually firing at the target and reticule at it will then disappear.

p.s. stream spot cam could perhaps appear over the minimap temporarily to save the screen space.