Knife = One hit kill? - Page 8

Trolltaxi · 2012-06-13, 03:54 PM

Is it possible to add a code to PSU that redirects everyone into an existing quick-knife thread if they start a new topic and "knife" and "quick" is in the first 3 lines? Would be a great addition.

Banning them would probably be too harsh...

Ratstomper · 2012-06-13, 03:56 PM

I wouldn't mind seeing the quick knife go as well. Make it a cert line and an equippable weapon.

I STILL wouldn't mind seeing one-hit knife kills under the assumption that that is something that has to be certed and used in the correct circumstance (backstab, not a quick knife, etc.), and simply acting as a moderate form of damage in other circumstances.

therandomone · 2012-06-13, 04:36 PM

Alright, so I'm gone for a little bit and this is what happens. I guess it is time to jump back into the fray. Here seem to be a couple of the common arguments:

Argument 1: The SHIELDS/Space Armor/Combination of both
I understand where people are coming from on this. They follow what they believe to be a logical progression in their reasoning which is this: We have armor now that helps defend against knife attacks so therefore I imagine you believe in the future it would just be stronger/more effective. Honestly I cant fault you for that,like I said its a logical progression of reasoning, except for one key component: you arent looking at the bigger picture. The bigger picture being that if we have technologically advanced armor, why wouldnt the knives be more technologically advanced as well? Its only logical that if the armor has advanced the knives have as well. I love this argument because people try and say "sci-fi....done" but see that works for both sides. So, when you try and play that "what-if" card for why it doesnt w[ork, the other side can then play the "what-if" card and explain why it does. Therefore, this arguments holds as much water as strainer.

Argument 2: This doesn't fit planetside. If you want to play like that then play [insert game they dont like here]
This argument, at first glance, seems to hold more water. I mean, who are some of us to argue with these PS vets (Please dont misread this, the fact that you played the first one both makes me jealous and makes me have respect for you for helping keep that game alive and consequently giving developers the drive to create a second one), they played the first one and we didnt, which is why they and others feel it has strength. Unfortunately, it really doesnt. Why? Simple answer: Things change. Like how theres now the LA class with jet-packs and Maxes have become more equivalent to each other between factions. Those are just two noticeable changes,but people aren't up in arms about that. That leads me to conclude its not that it doesn't fit planetside, but that it doesnt fit you. Now of course I know someone will come back and say "Im part of the community, and its developers should listen to the community" Which I agree with, but I, like others, are also part of the community, which means they should listen to us as well.

In conclusion I feel some people have proposed a solid compromise. The compromise being that A) No quick knife, it must be equipable only and B) that it can be certed up to a one hit kill from behind.

Wahooo · 2012-06-13, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Sirisian

This is the general problem with polls on this forum. People can't read the results since they fail to read the threads.

LOL... it isn't an issue with the Poll system, it is the things you like are bad ideas. Reading more support for a bad idea won't make it a good idea.

Quick knives = bad
OHK quick knives = MOAR bad

The poll says most PS supporters agree with the above statement.
See the poll works.

Sirisian · 2012-06-13, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Dart

Read the first few pages then come back to me. I do not want to see quick knives under any circumstances (ie. one hit kill or 12 hit kill) and I think a lot of people agree with me. I'd far rather see (just) the equip knife which allows you to specialize and customize it. Quick knives are a lazy concession to COD/MW players which does not fit in PlanetSide in my (and a lot of other people's) opinion.

If you had read the thread you would have gotten this breakdown which is posted at the end of the thread. When taking an objective viewpoint in a debate try not to read only the posts that agree with your viewpoint. I know it's easy to do, but it makes you sound ignorant. Especially if you go "oh the first posts agree with me" and fail to realize that after that point a discussion begins where people start talking more in depth.

Originally Posted by Sirisian

No quick knife (21), said "No", but did not explain if they wanted equipped knife only or just didn't want a one-hit knife button
Equipped knife only (37) Explicitly said they wanted equipped knife only. (PS1 style normally).
No one-hit quick knife (47) Explicitly said they wanted a knife button as long as it didn't one-hit
Other (16) Either didn't specify or went on a tangent about backstabs and other mechanisms related to knifing

Originally Posted by Wahooo

Quick knives = bad
OHK quick knives = MOAR bad

The poll says most PS supporters agree with the above statement.

The poll lacks those options. I think you're reading into it with a bias. Realize that most players don't want a modern implementation of the quick knife, myself included, so they voted no to having a quick knife with a poor implementation.

Dart · 2012-06-13, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by Sirisian

When taking an objective viewpoint in a debate try not to read only the posts that agree with your viewpoint. I know it's easy to do, but it makes you sound ignorant..

Irony....

Traak · 2012-06-13, 04:47 PM

.

therandomone · 2012-06-13, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by Dart

Irony....

I understand where you're going with this,but in calling him out you are calling myself, yourself, and everyone else out in an argument as well. Objectivity is generally saved for those without a viewpoint in any given argument, which as you can imagine is a very small window of people. We all have our sides, but only some can just be backed by logic and therefore the correct one. So before you call him out for that, take a look at your own arguments and try and claim objectivity. Now that would be ironic.

Dart · 2012-06-13, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by therandomone

I understand where you're going with this,but in calling him out you are calling myself, yourself, and everyone else out in an argument as well. Objectivity is generally saved for those without a viewpoint in any given argument, which as you can imagine is a very small window of people. We all have our sides, but only some can just be backed by logic and therefore the correct one. So before you call him out for that, take a look at your own arguments and try and claim objectivity. Now that would be ironic.

For the record, his condescending post was the first to "call someone out". And i don't need to justify my objectivity. From the majority of every thread I've seen, i represent the popular opinion. Anyone who disagrees with that has not only lost any objectivity but also their reading comprehension.

The community is so united in rejecting this mechanism that the defenders of quick knives are looking increasingly out of touch.

Verruna · 2012-06-13, 05:19 PM

Personally i thought PS1's knife kills were balanced - with a melee implant it took two stabs to kill a rexo, which gave the rexo a second or less in which to turn around and shoot the cloaker, while attempting to move hoping to get out of range of the second stab.

I'm thinking one hit knife kills can't really be balanced, even with tradeoffs tbh. On the other hand insta kill stabbing people as a cloaker would be loads of fun - but would feel kinda gimmicky given the ease of doing it. Granted i don't know all the infil cloak fit options though..

Ratstomper · 2012-06-13, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by Verruna

Personally i thought PS1's knife kills were balanced - with a melee implant it took two stabs to kill a rexo, which gave the rexo a second or less in which to turn around and shoot the cloaker, while attempting to move hoping to get out of range of the second stab.

I'm thinking one hit knife kills can't really be balanced, even with tradeoffs tbh. On the other hand insta kill stabbing people as a cloaker would be loads of fun - but would feel kinda gimmicky given the ease of doing it. Granted i don't know all the infil cloak fit options though..

The issue I see with it is that infiltrators could cloak indefinately in PS1 and moving undetected was a lot easier. With the shorter TTKs and more frantic action in PS2, it will be a lot harder to get close to someone. In my mind, if a cloaked (or even non-infiltrator) has spent some of his hard earned cert points in it and can sneak up behind you, he deserves the kill.

I think it would have to be non-quickknife for it to work well, though.

IceJudge · 2012-06-13, 05:29 PM

I think battlefield 3 did a great job with the knife, but its still unreliable in the sense you kind of roll the dice at times just hoping it'll even function correctly. However at the same time I personally wouldn't mind a Call of duty system since planetside 2 is going to be faster paced than PS1.

Zolan · 2012-06-13, 05:34 PM

Why don't you guys just wrap up all of these knife threads into one single thread with a poll asking to pick one of the following:

Quick-knife or Equip-knife.

therandomone · 2012-06-13, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by Dart

For the record, his condescending post was the first to "call someone out". And i don't need to justify my objectivity. From the majority of every thread I've seen, i represent the popular opinion. Anyone who disagrees with that has not only lost any objectivity but also their reading comprehension.

The community is so united in rejecting this mechanism that the defenders of quick knives are looking increasingly out of touch.

No offense but you claim to have read the thread yet you are trying to straw man an argument that doesn't exist. The only part of that last sentence thats right is that the community doesnt like the quick knifing mechanism. Thats why were arent arguing for or against that. If you ACTUALLY (key word) read the thread you'd realize its about the lethality of the knife. So, please re-read the thread and then try and post something relevant to the thread.

For shits and giggles heres more food for thought: popular doesnt always equal right. In this specific case though we, like everyone else agree quick knifing shouldnt happen so I guess we luck out.

Also, as soon as you say you don't need any objectivity you lose any credibility in a logical argument. Though since you dont like logic I can use internet speak and break it down simply with the phrase "FAIL!" (Wow, typing that hurts my soul a bit)

Dart · 2012-06-13, 05:53 PM

I've already responded to the 1 hit kill proposal. I don't have time to repeat myself, so feel free to go back and read my posts. Apparently I'd be wasting my time if i were to elaborate on why 1 hit kills would be so damaging to PS2 so I'll leave you to your puerile memes.