Trayvon Martin - Page 42

Warborn · 2012-06-26, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by Saifoda

Fact: Zimmerman did follow him, however for Martin to pursue his perceived attacker would, again, negate the self-defense prosecution if the threat has been removed (Zimmerman was returning to his vehicle -- again, according to his story, which is what we have to go on here).

Here's a police photo showing Trayvon's body, taken from the path Zimmerman says he was walking along to get back to his vehicle. Here is the reenactment where Zimmerman tells police Martin was covering his mouth while smashing his head against concrete as he screamed for help. Martin's body is a considerable distance away from the path, and even Zimmerman's claim that he fell a distance forward after Martin cold clocked him doesn't get him close to where the actual shooting happened.

Zimmerman's own reenactment of the fight isn't congruent with reality. He placed Martin's body a couple houses away from where it actually was. The idea that he was attacked on the path, fell over, and Martin jumped on him, couldn't have resulted in Martin's body being found that far away from the path he says he was taking back to his vehicle.

The idea that he didn't know which of the three streets he was on and had to cross over to another street to get an address is also fairly absurd. That plus the location of the body make me rather hesitant to accept Zimmerman's story that he was attacked in that fashion.

Baneblade · 2012-06-27, 12:16 AM

Zimmerman had every right to observe and report suspicious activity in his neighborhood. That it escalated into an armed conflict is most likely due to the way Martin most likely reacted to it.

ItsTheSheppy · 2012-06-27, 08:49 AM

Walking while black: suspicious activity.

Saifoda · 2012-06-27, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by Warborn

Here's a police photo showing Trayvon's body, taken from the path Zimmerman says he was walking along to get back to his vehicle. Here is the reenactment where Zimmerman tells police Martin was covering his mouth while smashing his head against concrete as he screamed for help. Martin's body is a considerable distance away from the path, and even Zimmerman's claim that he fell a distance forward after Martin cold clocked him doesn't get him close to where the actual shooting happened.

Zimmerman's own reenactment of the fight isn't congruent with reality. He placed Martin's body a couple houses away from where it actually was. The idea that he was attacked on the path, fell over, and Martin jumped on him, couldn't have resulted in Martin's body being found that far away from the path he says he was taking back to his vehicle.

The idea that he didn't know which of the three streets he was on and had to cross over to another street to get an address is also fairly absurd. That plus the location of the body make me rather hesitant to accept Zimmerman's story that he was attacked in that fashion.

Wow. Look at the photos again. You've got an incredible imagination.

Originally Posted by DjEclipse

Well him being a kid does not disconnect me from seeing for what it is. I feel Jerome Ersland should be pardoned, there's a dead kid in that story as well.

And excuse me, but you have an OPINION -- you don't "[see] for what it is." You don't know what happened, quit using misleading language -- you're only fooling yourself.

Warborn · 2012-06-27, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Saifoda

Wow. Look at the photos again. You've got an incredible imagination.

Thanks, hoss. Actually I am not surprised you don't see anything odd there. Here's a better perspective:

Pink is the reenactment location of the shooting Zimmerman provided, yellow is where the body was actually recovered. Even Zimmerman's story about falling forward for 20 feet trying to fight Martin off doesn't place him at the location of the shooting.

Saifoda · 2012-06-27, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by Warborn

Thanks, hoss. Actually I am not surprised you don't see anything odd there. Here's a better perspective:

Pink is the reenactment location of the shooting Zimmerman provided, yellow is where the body was actually recovered. Even Zimmerman's story about falling forward for 20 feet trying to fight Martin off doesn't place him at the location of the shooting.

And this photo you got from where?

Warborn · 2012-06-27, 12:06 PM

Found it via Google, but it was made with Google Earth. You can see the tree Zimmerman was by and you can fairly easily find the location of the body. There's a distance of around 30 feet from where Zimmerman says he shot Martin and where the actual shooting happened.

Also, Zimmerman's interrogation tapes:
http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/docum...iew_0229_1.mp3
http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/docum...iew_0229_2.mp3
http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/docum...iew_0229_3.mp3

Saifoda · 2012-06-27, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by Warborn

Found it via Google, but it was made with Google Earth. You can see the tree Zimmerman was by and you can fairly easily find the location of the body. There's a distance of around 30 feet from where Zimmerman says he shot Martin and where the actual shooting happened.

Also, Zimmerman's interrogation tapes:
http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/docum...iew_0229_1.mp3
http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/docum...iew_0229_2.mp3
http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/docum...iew_0229_3.mp3

I guess my question is who made this? Has it been vetted properly?

Warborn · 2012-06-27, 12:54 PM

"Vetted"? Just look at where he's standing in the re-enactment and look where the body is. This isn't rocket surgery. Are you suggesting maybe Google Earth is involved in a conspiracy to make George Zimmerman's story look bad?

As if George needs any help with that. Listen to interrogation tape #3 and watch George's re-enactment. He's full of shit.

Geist · 2012-06-27, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by Warborn

Thanks, hoss. Actually I am not surprised you don't see anything odd there. Here's a better perspective:

Pink is the reenactment location of the shooting Zimmerman provided, yellow is where the body was actually recovered. Even Zimmerman's story about falling forward for 20 feet trying to fight Martin off doesn't place him at the location of the shooting.

My question is when he was doing the renactment, was there a point of reference for where the body was? Because if not(I'm assuming there wasn't), he was likely he was just guessing where the fight happened. Looks like the points are about the same distance from the concrete, so I imagine despite it not being in the same exact spot, it could have went down in exactly the same way.

Warborn · 2012-06-27, 01:39 PM

Zimmerman says he never stepped foot on the path that Martin's body was found alongside. He claims that he was walking along the path to get from the street on the left (in that picture) to the street on the right, and as he passed the T intersection Martin attacked him.

So whether he was at the right spot along the path connecting the streets when he was attacked isn't really the issue. What is the issue is that he claims he never stepped foot down that path between the rows of houses, and yet Martin's body was found ~50 feet down it.

ItsTheSheppy · 2012-06-27, 02:17 PM

I suppose if I had to guess why this case in particular was getting so much attention, it's because it shows how far we've come as a society from this. Warning: do not read if you don't want your afternoon ruined.

I mean that wasn't all that long ago, really. And here we have again a shooting death of an innocent black man, and the country is agonizing over it. Whatever side you're on about things, I think we can all rest a little easier that at the very least, this sort of circus would have never drawn half the attention had this happened fifty, sixty years ago.

We're not there yet, obviously, but I guess in the cruel world in which we live, this could be counted as progress.

Saifoda · 2012-06-27, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by DjEclipse

No I actually SEE it for what it is, because I saw Zimmerman's reenactment.

Which for the record, so stupid, don't ever help a cop make a case against you.

You may chime, that proves he's innocent, no just proves he is habitually stupid.
Just like lying to the court, just like his stupid ass jail house phone calls, just like
following a kid at night thinking he was cowboy tex.

Well then you truly are delusional my friend and I pity you. Until you realize what you (and everybody, for that matter) have is an opinion, this discussion cannot progress properly.

Originally Posted by Warborn

Zimmerman says he never stepped foot on the path that Martin's body was found alongside. He claims that he was walking along the path to get from the street on the left (in that picture) to the street on the right, and as he passed the T intersection Martin attacked him.

So whether he was at the right spot along the path connecting the streets when he was attacked isn't really the issue. What is the issue is that he claims he never stepped foot down that path between the rows of houses, and yet Martin's body was found ~50 feet down it.

First of all, no I'm not saying google is in on some conspiracy. Maybe, but let's not go down that road of hypotheticals. At this point I'd like to ask you, have you ever been in a physical fight? Once? Twice maybe? I'm tellin' ya, bud, it doesn't take a lot for shit to get moved around on you.

EDIT: Almost forgot my main point lol. I'm curious, what do you think it is that Zimmerman was trying to do by supposedly moving the body, as you seem to believe he did?

Warborn · 2012-06-27, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by Saifoda

First of all, no I'm not saying google is in on some conspiracy. Maybe, but let's not go down that road of hypotheticals. At this point I'd like to ask you, have you ever been in a physical fight? Once? Twice maybe? I'm tellin' ya, bud, it doesn't take a lot for shit to get moved around on you.

EDIT: Almost forgot my main point lol. I'm curious, what do you think it is that Zimmerman was trying to do by supposedly moving the body, as you seem to believe he did?

Who cares if I've been in a fight? The pictures show how Zimmerman himself says the fight went, and he is well away from the location he actually shot Martin at. There is no need for dumb hypotheticals. We have the man himself telling us what happened, and his claim doesn't match reality.

I don't claim he moved Martin bodily to a location 30 feet from where he shot him. Maybe I made a fatuous remark to that effect in commenting on the difference between where Zimmerman demonstrated the fight happened and where the body was recovered. That said, Zimmerman does make the claim that after he shot Martin he outstretched his arms in an effort to disarm Martin, as he claims he felt Martin was attacking him with a weapon. As it turns out, Martin was found with his hands beneath him, laying prone on the grass.

So even though I am not claiming the body was moved, Zimmerman is in fact claiming it (albeit in a different way than I think you might have thought.)

Saifoda · 2012-06-27, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by Warborn

Who cares if I've been in a fight? The pictures show how Zimmerman himself says the fight went, and he is well away from the location he actually shot Martin at. There is no need for dumb hypotheticals. We have the man himself telling us what happened, and his claim doesn't match reality.

I don't claim he moved Martin bodily to a location 30 feet from where he shot him. Maybe I made a fatuous remark to that effect in commenting on the difference between where Zimmerman demonstrated the fight happened and where the body was recovered. That said, Zimmerman does make the claim that after he shot Martin he outstretched his arms in an effort to disarm Martin, as he claims he felt Martin was attacking him with a weapon. As it turns out, Martin was found with his hands beneath him, laying prone on the grass.

So even though I am not claiming the body was moved, Zimmerman is in fact claiming it (albeit in a different way than I think you might have thought.)

Well I gotta say I care because there are lots of things that happen when you've got adrenaline pumping and overriding your "how do I do this completely 100% legally" spidey senses; but all that aside, I understand there appear to be some holes in his story from one day to the next (Zimmerman's biggest mistake imo was talking to the cops after the event, rather than just shutting his mouth until his lawyer was present) but I still don't understand how this makes a particular difference into whether he used proper judgement during the incident and within the confines of the law.