Planetside 2, off-planet

Femtobyte · 2012-06-24, 07:49 PM

Just some thoughts on a type of map expansion that could be interesting.
Disclaimer: I don't expect this anytime soon, just want to see it at some point in the far future, like a year after the game launches.
A thanks to Saifoda for pointing out these other similar threads, its nice to read what other people are kicking around in their heads.
EDIT: here are links to several other threads on this subject.
Saifoda's http://www.planetside-universe.com/s...ad.php?t=42578
basti's http://www.planetside-universe.com/s...ad.php?t=37173
Corax's http://www.planetside-universe.com/s...ad.php?t=36283

Space "Continents" Just allow that thought to sort of ruminate for a while. Players could fight over asteroids / satellites / portions of moons. Using space specific vehicles, similar to the ground based vehicles or maybe even clones of them, just with an O2 tank equipped instead of flares or something of that nature. The maps could better utilize the amount of 3-dimensional space that is available with the fairly high sky-cap now implemented in the alpha testing. And just imagine, instead of needing to traverse a river or canyon, needing to traverse the gap between two floating asteroids? Being able to look down and see Auraxis in the gap, it sure sounds awesome to me.

This also seems to allow for all sorts of tie-ins with the ground based gameplay. See this thread on Orbiting Sanctuaries/Motherships http://www.planetside-universe.com/s...ad.php?t=42324 You could even implement outfit capital ships that serve as a sort of mobile base for very high-ranking outfits. Requiring tons of resources to make and being able to be destroyed/scuttled. But I am getting distracted, that is an entirely different thread

I know this game is called Planetside 2, and that title certainly seems to preclude any type of Space content, but we ARE fighting in a futuristic/hightech universe here, and there is definitely room in the lore for this type of gameplay. I am also aware of the immense technical challenges it would bring to the development team, null-g to low-g shifts within a single "continent" as you transition from empty space to over a large asteroid or moon, determining if the "underside" (is that term even applicable) of these bases/land based areas will/can be made playable. (e.g. can I run all the way around this floating rock? Do my "mag-boots" hold me on while I go upside down?) I however have full faith in the extremely talented dev team and believe that they are fully capable of overcoming these immense sort of issues.

It would add in even more epicness and interest in a game that after a year will almost certainly have begun to peak in interest, and probably cash-flow. Finally, I for one, just do not feel complete in any sci-fi shooter until I have assaulted an enemy space base, and experienced some null-g dog-fighting. Possibly even forced to eject out of my vehicle and drifted alone in space, slowly depleting my O2 ala Battlestar Galactica style.

berzerkerking · 2012-06-24, 08:02 PM

Seeing as you calculated for the time effort and animations that would go into making this, I believe this is plausible. This should be postponed until all the continents are complete and bug-free

Until then we wait.

Dagron · 2012-06-24, 08:05 PM

Hehe, i said it in that thread you linked and i say it again: awesome idea.

Femtobyte · 2012-06-24, 08:08 PM

Yes, I know this will not be any sort of instant expansion, it would take quite a long time. At the same time, I can't help but get in a bit of a tizzy thinking about all the possibilities.

Jomo · 2012-06-24, 09:21 PM

Sounds like it could be a pretty epic thing if they think through and implement it right. As everyone said, it's a thing that wouldn't happen right away, but if we take that into mind, I'd be down for this.

elementHTTP · 2012-06-24, 11:49 PM

Great idea ! Imagine fractions fighting for solar system

Like there are 3 planets with 3-4 continents and 3 fraction battle moons
( aka death stars without mega laser

, which are like last stand outposts/fortresses )

As you said that makes room for massive planet assaults (drops ) , space battleships and whoooole new pack of epic experiences

but time/technology wise it will be in Planetside3

(5 -10 years )

rating 5/5

Femtobyte · 2012-06-25, 12:47 AM

Originally Posted by elementHTTP

Great idea ! Imagine fractions fighting for solar system

Like there are 3 planets with 3-4 continents and 3 fraction battle moons
( aka death stars without mega laser

, which are like last stand outposts/fortresses )

I would hope that the space battles would have an effect on the ground battles, like if one empire has control of all the space "continents" they would have some sort of improved surveillance on the land continents, whereas the enemies would have less surveillance capabilities. This is beyond the obvious resources that each faction should gain from control of these territories, just like control of any other territory. But I do not see any advantage to drops from space, as long as PS2 has warp-gates and footholds on each continent, there would be little to no point in them changing the way that the continents interact with each other. At least as far as how troops are deployed into a continent.

Originally Posted by elementHTTP

As you said that makes room for massive planet assaults (drops ) , space battleships and whoooole new pack of epic experiences...

While massive carrier to carrier battles are fun, (I admit to being a HUGE fan of StarWars Battlefront II) they would be inherently problematic in PS2 given that all ships cost resources, and I for one would neither want to be an infantryman stuck on a carrier during an epic space battle, nor would I want to waste MY valuable resources over and over again from spamming my fighter jet to defend said carrier.

Originally Posted by elementHTTP

...but time/technology wise it will be in Planetside3

(5 -10 years )

Lastly, I believe (hope) that if the space "continents" are treated more like the traditional continents in PS2 having areas that can place ground, space and infantry units in direct conflict with one another, and not being an entirely different game (not Spaceside) it would not have to take 5-10 years to develop. Not if we are keeping the things we love about PS2 (massive scale / interplay between support roles / etc) even though its not out yet. And just changing some of the gameplay physics aspects / tactical aspects of it since we are in a different environment. Nor would we have to wait until PS3 *crosses fingers* At least, I reaally hope not.

elementHTTP · 2012-06-25, 02:23 AM

Originally Posted by Femtobyte

I would hope that the space battles would have an effect on the ground battles, like if one empire has control of all the space "continents" they would have some sort of improved surveillance on the land continents, whereas the enemies would have less surveillance capabilities. This is beyond the obvious resources that each faction should gain from control of these territories, just like control of any other territory. But I do not see any advantage to drops from space, as long as PS2 has warp-gates and footholds on each continent, there would be little to no point in them changing the way that the continents interact with each other. At least as far as how troops are deployed into a continent.

Yes only just surveillance and drops anything else can be OP and not fun ( imagine orbital bombardment no place to hide )

on another hand defenders must have some sort of defensive/offensive space capabilities (something like multipurpose fighters that can go to space, ground to space cannons )

Originally Posted by Femtobyte

While massive carrier to carrier battles are fun, (I admit to being a HUGE fan of StarWars Battlefront II) they would be inherently problematic in PS2 given that all ships cost resources, and I for one would neither want to be an infantryman stuck on a carrier during an epic space battle, nor would I want to waste MY valuable resources over and over again from spamming my fighter jet to defend said carrier.

You are absolutely right having one large transport whit 100 peoples and noob pilot can be devastating (too much time/resource investment)
I was imagining lots of smaller dropships for troop transports (10 - 20 troops )

and one large spawn point creator battleship that is automatically created from main fraction base (when you are expelled from planet) that must be defended until it lands
something like this

in combination Battlezone2 mobile build system

edit dont like original PS2 idea about invincible spawn point protection system (personal opinion)

Femtobyte · 2012-06-25, 03:05 AM

It seems to me that we are having a major disconnect of thought... While I agree it would be freaking awesome to just straight not have a flight ceiling, and be able to have both land battles and space battles directly interacting with each other, descending from space directly onto the continent below. It seems to me that that type of interaction will not be possible in PS2.

I have been more treating the space battle areas as separate continents able to be accessed through the footholds your empire has, but not directly connected to the other continents besides whatever resource/strategic advantage the dev's choose to give out. =D If we are looking for that kind of cubic game-play area, from the continent all the way up into space sort of thing, I just don't see it happening, until as you said, PS3 comes out in 5-10 years.

Toppopia · 2012-06-25, 03:49 AM

I thought i heard something about the people that made EVE were making a MMOFPS and i thought they said that the EVE Online universe interacts with the MMOFPS universe and the ships can help out the ground forces, that sounds very cool, but maybe i was imagining that i saw that.

Femtobyte · 2012-06-25, 04:53 AM

It's called Dust 514, here is a link to a youtube video about it. The main difference that I see between PS2 and Dust 514 is the scope of the battles. In Dust there are battles on different worlds however, the individual maps on each world are small. About the size of a typical CoD map from what I've seen.

I do not know a ton about EVE online, just that it is a spacebased MMO who's developer (CCP) has taken a very hands off approach in allowing their player base to really create the game however they want. Even condoning griefing as a "legitimate way to play the game"

Dust 514 on the other hand is your quintessential F2PFPS, albeit with a massive amount of customization that most other games of the genre can't match as far as skill-trees and weapons go.

What CCP has done to create an MMO FPS is basically merge these two games. As a Dust player, you are able to contact EVE players and receive help from them, for a price of course. And as an EVE player you may be interested in the outcome of the battle, because it might help your corporation/alliance/guild whatever they are called.

In essence I think it provides a rather nice sense of the scope and import of your actions in the EVE universe, but it is not a true MMOFPS, its more of an MMO, with an FPS aspect duct-taped onto it.

I apologize if I have offended any EVE/Dust players in writing this post, I have some familiarity with the subject, but I have never actually played EVE. So feel free to correct me.

Saifoda · 2012-06-25, 12:15 PM

Well since you DID ask for other threads to be linked, might as well toot my own horn here

Link

Also I am writing more stuff on some details of the space combat stuff; I'll get that up in my first thread when they're done.

Neurotoxin · 2012-06-25, 02:15 PM

After continental combat is perfected, after naval warfare is perfected, we're either going up or down.

I doubt we'll see a return to the caverns as something on Auraxis, but instead perhaps randomly-generated near-passing meteors and asteroids will spawn for teams to go on and collect resources from while they are close enough to access, or possibly being a moon-related kinda thing.

I could see some sorta combat on the flotilla still orbiting Auraxis. Some ships are civilian ships, some are tactical orbital stations. The civilian ships should be the ones which function like our old sanctuaries, while the tactical orbital stations are where space combat is really focused. Maybe this idea could be combined with moon caverns.

Femtobyte · 2012-06-25, 02:57 PM

I enjoyed reading that stuff saifoda. It was an interesting idea of how the actual combat etc would work. I haven't gotten into that much detail to be honest. However there are a few main points that I definitely disagree with.

1st, making the population cap for the space continents/sectors smaller than the regular ground continents. Putting it to only 500, so that the main part of planetside will remain more heavily populated.
I really dislike that idea, it seems like an artificial limitation that would only serve to force players into doing things they don't wish to. If/when this space combat is ever released it will DEFINITELY be something that people at least want to try. Allowing only a measly 500 people into space is sure to irritate some people. And it would all be so that we could artificially "keep the ground combat more populated" I don't know if there will ever be a huge problem with nobody on the ground and everyone just messing around in space. But with as popular as this game is going to be, I just don't see it happening anytime soon.
Perhaps if we needed to enforce a sort of limit to how much space combat there was, we could do it through resources. Make space comparatively much less resource rich, so it is mainly a tactical advantage. That should force most empires to go down to the planets surface. Without imposing an artificial limit on players.

2nd, I also do not like the idea of infantry being unable to go outside, having to fight only in the capture-able bases. Why not make them able to flit around in space with small jetpacks? Make them much slower than any space vehicle, but don't make them unable to fight in space. Let them zip around on the surface of an asteroid in a moon roveresque dune buggy thing. Make it fun to be in space for more than just the big outfits.

Saifoda · 2012-06-25, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by Femtobyte

I enjoyed reading that stuff saifoda. It was an interesting idea of how the actual combat etc would work. I haven't gotten into that much detail to be honest. However there are a few main points that I definitely disagree with.

1st, making the population cap for the space continents/sectors smaller than the regular ground continents. Putting it to only 500, so that the main part of planetside will remain more heavily populated.
I really dislike that idea, it seems like an artificial limitation that would only serve to force players into doing things they don't wish to. If/when this space combat is ever released it will DEFINITELY be something that people at least want to try. Allowing only a measly 500 people into space is sure to irritate some people. And it would all be so that we could artificially "keep the ground combat more populated" I don't know if there will ever be a huge problem with nobody on the ground and everyone just messing around in space. But with as popular as this game is going to be, I just don't see it happening anytime soon.
Perhaps if we needed to enforce a sort of limit to how much space combat there was, we could do it through resources. Make space comparatively much less resource rich, so it is mainly a tactical advantage. That should force most empires to go down to the planets surface. Without imposing an artificial limit on players.

2nd, I also do not like the idea of infantry being unable to go outside, having to fight only in the capture-able bases. Why not make them able to flit around in space with small jetpacks? Make them much slower than any space vehicle, but don't make them unable to fight in space. Let them zip around on the surface of an asteroid in a moon roveresque dune buggy thing. Make it fun to be in space for more than just the big outfits.

First of all, thanks for linking to my original post -- appreciation +1

.

I think your 2 points on some improvements to my suggested model are definitely valid. I'll address those now:

I personally "set" the cap at 500 because 1: It's a nice round number. And 2: To keep the post from turning into a flame war about how it'll detract from the ground game play. I think we could see this being successful with each zone having the 2000 limit or whatever number, as long as the servers can handle it basically; if the servers can handle 10,000 and we've got 8,000 that want to jump in, that's great! But I also do think it shouldn't detract from the gameplay on the ground (but hey, if the players all want to be in space -- LET 'EM!!)

As for the Infantry not being able to go outside except for on the surface of the structures, I thought about your suggestion as well of having the space zones be totally available to all types (Infantry AND ship) and quite honestly I think that could be OK too. Again I was trying to avoid a flame war from a lot of the potential hazards of this, to which I've already thought of solutions. The biggest argument to having infantry only be allowed in ships and on the space structures (asteroids, space stations, etc...) would be that if you're a lone Infantry dude just kinda floating around in space, then the game would suck for you. True, and...Solution: If you find yourself in the middle of nowhere, simply deconstruct your player (keybinding the command even, to say, "P" or whatever key) and you can then spawn on any friendly ship with a spawn room (only the large ships would have this -- frigate-class and above) or your space station sanc or a friendly controlled space structure. Pretty simple, I think.

The things I'm writing to expand on in the future with the space combat zones idea are the details on the ships and how they are constructed with the outfits (going to have to wait till launch to know exactly how the resource system is going to work, but we can still speculate), and some of the space structure layouts. A big thing that I'm still not too certain how it will work is going to be boarding. I would LOVE for there to be a boarding mechanic -- fighting as "Marines," in the original sense of the word, on ships; quite frankly I think it would be FUCKING awesome.