Factional Weapons Cause Faction Pop Imbalance?

[noxious]

It's not like PlanetSide 2 is the first game to feature faction-unique items. Even ignoring the fact that PlanetSide featured them (and was generally considered balanced), there are myriad examples of games with faction-unique items that are perfectly balanced. In fact, the most popular competitive game of all time, Startcraft, features three factions that are substantially more unique than the factions in PlanetSide 2 are going to be.

[bpostal]

I'm putting my faith in the sidegrade system. My Cycler won't be the same as a Gauss rifle but it should be accurate and have enough DPS(hot) to work.

[StumpyTheOzzie]

So 2 NCs with Jackhammers pop around a corner and see 2 TRs with MCGs.

If they all start shooting (focus fire) I'd expect the NC to win because of the higher alpha strike. 1 TR will drop basically instantly, and then it's 2 vs 1.

[Bags]

PS1 had more imbalances than PS2 will likely have, due to much fewer ES weapons.

For example, every faction can have the burster max, shield, no jump jets for VS max, and you can tweak weapons to be more like the other factions.

It wasn't a problem in the first, how can it be a problem in the second?

[Pyreal]

Originally Posted by Littleman

We don't know. Low, medium, and high tell us nothing of how precisely the weaponry performs in actual practice, and I'm not going to gauge each weapon's worth by what we see in videos. Furthermore, each weapon has a different modifier on head shots last I heard. Chainguns and shotguns for example won't have any head shot modifiers.

Just so you know those vague High, Med, Low labels came from the Apr issue of PC Gamer, I didn't make them up.

[ODonnell]

I hate games that try to do a Rock,Paper, Scissor balance. I hate that approach to design. Every faction should have its strengths and weaknesses. Avoid situations that allow an enemy to exploit your weakness and allow your strengths to excel. If a weapon makes someone choose another faction than that weapon most likely is obvious unbalanced to the extreme. For me planetside faction choice is a personal thing based on faction lore, belief, style, and outfit allegiance.

Update: And you have to remember that higby said weapons/vehicles will be customizable to the point that they can get close to their factions opposition.

[Pyreal]

Originally Posted by Bags

PS1 had more imbalances than PS2 will likely have, due to much fewer ES weapons.

For example, every faction can have the burster max, shield, no jump jets for VS max, and you can tweak weapons to be more like the other factions.

It wasn't a problem in the first, how can it be a problem in the second?

Because the games are quite a bit different in execution.

The fact of no locational damage in PS1 makes a big difference by itself.
Higher TTK, better netcode and faster connections, and there is a heavier emphasis on twitch play.

PS1 is old. The overall structure of the game is great (MMOFPS) but I've been playing it for a few days and let me tell you, this thing is a dino!

If I had to wrap it into one word it would be Sloppy (player and vehicle control, lack of feedback). It's just how it feels to me. I've been playing with my outfit mates from GOTR and that's fun in itself, but as PS1 lives I would not stay with it.

[AzK]

Originally Posted by StumpyTheOzzie

So 2 NCs with Jackhammers pop around a corner and see 2 TRs with MCGs.

If they all start shooting (focus fire) I'd expect the NC to win because of the higher alpha strike. 1 TR will drop basically instantly, and then it's 2 vs 1.

Except that when those 2 nc pop, the 2 tr are at the bottom of the stairs rather than around the corner, and the 2 nc stand no chance.

What now?

[Bags]

Originally Posted by Pyreal

Because the games are quite a bit different in execution.

The fact of no locational damage in PS1 makes a big difference by itself.
Higher TTK, better netcode and faster connections, and there is a heavier emphasis on twitch play.

PS1 is old. The overall structure of the game is great (MMOFPS) but I've been playing it for a few days and let me tell you, this thing is a dino!

If I had to wrap it into one word it would be Sloppy (player and vehicle control, lack of feedback). It's just how it feels to me. I've been playing with my outfit mates from GOTR and that's fun in itself, but as PS1 lives I would not stay with it.

Yes, but from the E3 footage all of the guns are virtually identical. I think the guns even all had the same size clip. If huge difference didn't affect PS1, tiny difference shouldn't affect Ps2.

[Pyreal]

Originally Posted by ODonnell

I hate games that try to do a Rock,Paper, Scissor balance. I hate that approach to design. Every faction should have its strengths and weaknesses. Avoid situations that allow an enemy to exploit your weakness and allow your strengths to excel. If a weapon makes someone choose another faction than that weapon most likely is obvious unbalanced to the extreme. For me planetside faction choice is a personal thing based on faction lore, belief, style, and outfit allegiance.

Update: And you have to remember that higby said weapons/vehicles will be customizable to the point that they can get close to their factions opposition.

Thank you, ODonnell!

That's the missing piece of the puzzle right there. I had the idea that the weapons were hardlocked within their factional flavor.

[Bags]

Originally Posted by Pyreal

Thank you, ODonnell!

That's the missing piece of the puzzle right there. I had the idea that the weapons were hardlocked within their factional flavor.

... but I said that and you told me I was wrong

Originally Posted by Bags

you can tweak weapons to be more like the other factions.

[TheRandomAmiba]

Originally Posted by Pyreal

Metziih failed to read and/or understand for the simple reason that you can't 'shoot faster' when your weapon has a ROF limit.

I asked a serious question in the clearest manner I could. He flapped his yap.
He may be a fine fellow, but his post was asinine.


Can we please focus on the two underlined questions?

Will personal skill make the difference in a 1v1 encounter, or will the factional trade-offs of the counterpart weapons be the deciding factor?

Will Factional differences lead to pigeonholing of play styles and imbalanced factional populations?

since i have not played ps2 i don't know but im guessing its a bit of both. depending on the situation. i know i suck with fast firing weps so a faction like vanu have a slower shoot rate than tr i could take slower more precise shots thats a faction trade off. i also know as long as vanu use plasma weapons we will have lots of snipers but few good ones. its easy to aim no drop but looses damage over time. an nc on the other hand will have less good snipers but will have a few great ones who take time on their shots and do heavy damage or insta-kills. tr on the other hand will have snipers that can afford to miss. meaning they will not have many good or great snipers but at close-er range they will mess you up. so its a bit of where you are as well. over all factions will have advantages in some situations.if their on a completely even playing field then vanu prefer: kill em at range. New con prefer: shoot em when you know you can hit. TR: dont shoot till you can step on their toes

[ODonnell]

Originally Posted by Bags

... but I said that and you told me I was wrong

How is your forhead feeling from that face plant to the desk? Don't sweat it man. It's all theory crafting and they didn't even have all the weapons in yet for the e3 show.

[moosepoop]

in battlefield 3 the guns have vastly different ROF, recoil, and dmg, and they are perfectly balanced. this is not a problem in planetside 2 because it has already been resolved numerous times in other games.



how are different guns in bf3 balanced? they are situtational. each gun are best suited for a certain distance.
why was this a problem in planetside 1? because the indoor combat was too crowed, too small. planetside 2 facilities are much larger and you can take advantage of different ranges.

[MrMorton]

Originally Posted by Pyreal

There are Two Main questions that are underlined.

Vanu Sovereignty Weapons:
Accuracy: High
Recoil: High (Burst and Sustained)
ROF: Low
DPShot: Medium

Terran Republic Weapons:
Accuracy: Medium
Recoil: Medium (High burst, Low sustained)
ROF: High
DPShot: Low

New Conglomerate Weapons:
Accuracy: Medium (High burst, Low sustained)
Recoil:Medium (Low burst, High sustained)
ROF: Low
DPShot: High


There will be numerous trade-offs for Vehicles as well.

Look at the NC: High accuracy, low initial recoil and high damage. Its the Holy Grail for players who like to aim for the head!
If a player wants to be a Sniper or focus on CQC, will he be labeled a scrub because they aren't playing the side that offers the factional weapon bonuses most well suited to the task?

Will my personal skill make the difference in winning a 1v1 encounter, or will the factional trade-offs of the counterpart weapons be the deciding factor?

If I am quicker and more accurate than my opponent, but I die because of a difference in counterpart weapons, I don't see how I won't be pissed off.

I am not a proponent of homogenization (particularly in RPGs), but I don't see how faction based mechanical differences in weapons will work in a modern styled MMOFPS.

I've played a few FPS and one thing that is always formost in players minds is fairness and balance in weapons. You can't give one side a weapon that is situationally better and not have the other side in an uproar.

PS1 vets will likely expect factional weapon differences, however, your average FPS player will expect a level playing field as regards weapons.

I can't seem to realized the piece of the puzzle that I'm sure I am missing, it must be there because there are a lot of intelligent people Developing this game who know a lot more than I do...


So saying that, help me solve this dilemma...

Will Factional differences lead to pigeonholing of play styles and imbalanced factional populations?


TL;DR= Factional weapon differences will cause players to (QQ) gravitate to factions based on weapon performance.

almost positive that this is the exact reason they implemented customization

so your concerns are completely valid, but SOE has already taken care of it (at least they appear to)