What happened to the Squad Leader class or equivalent of?

MasterChief096 · 2012-06-25, 09:55 PM

I remember SOE stating that you'll be able to spec out fully as a squad leader. Does anyone know how this will actually be done? Early in development, I assumed it was its own class, but now I assume its like its own cert tree, but what class uses it? All of them? Is it like a secondary cert tree that you can level independent of class?

Exmortius · 2012-06-25, 10:06 PM

from what i understand it's still it's own certs probably separate from the normal cert points. they confirmed squad spawn is a cert from it. i would guess some form of orbital strike would also fall in line with that waaaaaaay down the commander cert path. but that is one area they haven't talked much about to my knowledge so it's still very much up in the air.

Bags · 2012-06-25, 10:08 PM

It was never a class, it's cert based.

PhoenixDog · 2012-06-25, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

It was never a class, it's cert based.

^ This

kaffis · 2012-06-25, 10:18 PM

As Bags said, and to elaborate on that, it's a cert tree that does not require using a certain class to utilize.

We know that certs related to squad spawning (including, probably, gaining the squad spawn ability in the first place) will be within it; the devs have also indicated that certifications in the squad leader tree will enhance a player's ability to create missions, though it's likely that it's not final exactly how they'll do that, since the player created mission system is still in, at most, a very malleable stage of development.

Ratstomper · 2012-06-26, 12:47 AM

I'm not sure I like the idea of the command trees sharing the same cert point pool with everything else. The whole point of CRs in PS1 was that it encouraged you to get experience leading a squad to gain ranks and abilities. PS2 will have even more things that a squad leader can do to be effective. I wonder if it will have an adverse effect on squad leaders in general.

Xaine · 2012-06-26, 12:48 AM

As has been mentioned, the 'Squad Leader' role is based from within the Cert Tree.

kaffis · 2012-06-26, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by Ratstomper

I'm not sure I like the idea of the command trees sharing the same cert point pool with everything else. The whole point of CRs in PS1 was that it encouraged you to get experience leading a squad to gain ranks and abilities. PS2 will have even more things that a squad leader can do to be effective. I wonder if it will have an adverse effect on squad leaders in general.

I'm not bothered by it. If CR has any useful actual abilities (as global chats and OS did), it will just be seen as additional advancement, the same as it was in PS1.

As such, I think it's fine to make "young" squad leaders take their squad leader development out of their non-squad leader progress.

Pick what you want to do, and cert for it. If that's leading squads, and the squad leader certs give you tools you want access to -- that's something you're bringing to the squad, just as much as certing to use vehicles more effectively or whatnot. It shouldn't be a parallel advancement path. Making it a parallel path would imply that everybody needs them.

MCYRook · 2012-06-26, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by Ratstomper

The whole point of CRs in PS1 was that it encouraged you to get experience leading a squad to gain ranks and abilities.

You didn't have to actually display any leadership capability to gain CR in PS1 either. You just had to be squad leader, then get as many people as possible in that squad, and just kinda be around when your empire caps bases.

In both games, you have to sacrifice some XP that would otherwise go towards your various other certs to get ahead in CR. And in both games, ultimately everyone will have CR5 (or its equivalent) just because there's nothing else (or nothing more useful) for you to level up.

(The twist in PS2 is that they want to make sooo many certs and be able to go sooo deep in them that it's totally uncommon for a character to have ALL of them. Well, we'll see. PS1 devs certainly didn't envision there to be more CR5s than non-CR5s either.

)

GreatMazinkaise · 2012-06-26, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by MCYRook

You didn't have to actually display any leadership capability to gain CR in PS1 either. You just had to be squad leader, then get as many people as possible in that squad, and just kinda be around when your empire caps bases.

In both games, you have to sacrifice some XP that would otherwise go towards your various other certs to get ahead in CR. And in both games, ultimately everyone will have CR5 (or its equivalent) just because there's nothing else (or nothing more useful) for you to level up.

(The twist in PS2 is that they want to make sooo many certs and be able to go sooo deep in them that it's totally uncommon for a character to have ALL of them. Well, we'll see. PS1 devs certainly didn't envision there to be more CR5s than non-CR5s either.

)

It's entirely possible (even probable) that command certifications must be slotted *instead* of some of the normal class certifications.

Baneblade · 2012-06-26, 02:08 PM

I think squad leader abilities should all be tied to an armor class. I'd say Light Assault without the jetpack, but rather the backpack. It really bothers me that the old CR5pam thing isn't truly going away. The orbital strikes alone will be worth getting and everyone will.

Xyntech · 2012-06-26, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Baneblade

I think squad leader abilities should all be tied to an armor class. I'd say Light Assault without the jetpack, but rather the backpack. It really bothers me that the old CR5pam thing isn't truly going away. The orbital strikes alone will be worth getting and everyone will.

But if you have to temporarily not use some class certs because you want to use command certs, it may balance itself out.

I like the idea of embracing the fact that everyone may have access to orbital strikes instead of trying to balance it as a rare commodity. That never works. It didn't work for BFR's and it didn't work for Orbital Strikes. Better to balance it with the assumption that everyone may have access to it.

If I need to specially modify my cert loadout to use command abilities, that's not very different from having a command class. I certainly won't want to use those certs when I'm not commanding or orbital striking, so most of the time I'll probably be running around with more useful class specific certs. Then, if I need to, I can swap to my commander loadout (in my commander class of choice) and do what I gotta do.

neonlazer · 2012-06-26, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by MasterChief096

I remember SOE stating that you'll be able to spec out fully as a squad leader. Does anyone know how this will actually be done? Early in development, I assumed it was its own class, but now I assume its like its own cert tree, but what class uses it? All of them? Is it like a secondary cert tree that you can level independent of class?

Chief is a noob!!!!!!

There are command certs...you can cert in command.or cert in weapons...your choice!

Quovatis · 2012-06-26, 03:19 PM

Cert-based, for any class:
http://www.hamma.ws/ntemp/Infantry/CommandRank.jpg

Morphic · 2012-06-26, 03:43 PM

Wonder if the big death ray is gonna be the only squad WMD