Driver/Gunners... NO!

[BlueSkies]

Solo MBT < MBT with main driver/gunner + secondary AV gunner
Solo MBT < Air configured for air to ground
Solo MBT < MBT with main driver/gunner + secondary gunner when presented with multiple targets.

Simple fact: You are gimping yourself and wasting your own resources/cooldowns if you don't get yourself a secondary gunner.

So... whats the problem exactly?

[KaB]

Originally Posted by EisenKreutzer

Smedley on driver/gunner tanks: I realize a lot of PS1 players are going to look at stuff like this and be uncomfortable. The truth is part of our job is to get more people able to play the game right when they jump in.. but we have to balance that with making the game still be Planetside. Changes like this are just straight up more fun

I have an advice for j_smedley :

The more you wanna hit people, the less you will.
The more you wanna make your game universal, the less you will make a distinguished and original creation, and consequently, an interesting life span for your game.

Especially for a F2P, a good life span is really important. Whereas common games can take a rest after the first month if the sales have been effective.

Just saying.

[SgtExo]

Originally Posted by KaB

I have an advice for j_smedley :

The more you wanna hit people, the less you will.
The more you wanna make your game universal, the less you will make a distinguished and original creation, and consequently, an interesting life span for your game.

Especially for a F2P, a good life span is really important. Whereas common games can take a rest after the first month if the sales have been effective.

Just saying.

But they are not making a game that can do everything.

This game is just a massive persistent PvP game.

That is their niche, but allowing the most gameplay choices within that niche is what a game that is full of content is all about.

[KaB]

Adding some fun to game at the expense of its coherence is not the solution.

[Tehroth]

I agree with this, The large tanks and airships should have a crew that works together and shares kills, xp and the experiences of the game together. I am fine with smaller vehicles being single manned.

[Azren]

Originally Posted by ruskyandrei

See, this is what I was talking about. You contradict yourself here.

First you say:


What I take from that is that you believe that having a cert for a dedicated gunner seat would be bad because it would be a weaker setup than a drivergunner + secondary gunner alone.

But then you say this:


From which I understand that you consider a drivergunner setup inferior due to the lack of awareness caused by having a person as both the driver and gunner.

And if having a dedicated gunner is better isn't that balanced ?

So which is it ? Is drivergunner bad because it's too powerful, or because it's too weak ?

You should not take things out of context.

What I wrote in the first quote is that if you take a tank where the driver guns the main gun, but has a gunner and put it up against a tank where the driver drives and the two guns are handled by gunners, they will have the same firepower, armor, but will require one extra man to operate effectively.
This immediatly would bring up the issue if it is better to pull 3 MBTs each with drivergunner setup, or one with gunners... Who would win a 3v1 fight you think?
Still, if balanded right, this could work. The need for an extra gunner should be compensated in some way, for example with an armor bonus.


On the second quote I talk about battlefield conditions, not straight up balance. That is where the dedicated driver comes into play, he is your lifeline basically. A driver who is not preoccupied with shooting has a far greater situational awareness.

See? There is no contridiction here. You just have to read everything in it's right context.

I find it hilarious by the way how easy you talk about drivergunners getting a gunner for their tank. It is hard to find random gunners in PS1 where you take control of the main gun, you think it will be easy in PS2, where you are stuck with secondary? Well, no, it will not be. Honestly, since everyone can now pull an MBT from the first second, they will just do that.

[ruskyandrei]

Originally Posted by Azren

You should not take things out of context.

What I wrote in the first quote is that if you take a tank where the driver guns the main gun, but has a gunner and put it up against a tank where the driver drives and the two guns are handled by gunners, they will have the same firepower, armor, but will require one extra man to operate effectively.
This immediatly would bring up the issue if it is better to pull 3 MBTs each with drivergunner setup, or one with gunners... Who would win a 3v1 fight you think?
Still, if balanded right, this could work. The need for an extra gunner should be compensated in some way, for example with an armor bonus.


On the second quote I talk about battlefield conditions, not straight up balance. That is where the dedicated driver comes into play, he is your lifeline basically. A driver who is not preoccupied with shooting has a far greater situational awareness.

See? There is no contridiction here. You just have to read everything in it's right context.

I find it hilarious by the way how easy you talk about drivergunners getting a gunner for their tank. It is hard to find random gunners in PS1 where you take control of the main gun, you think it will be easy in PS2, where you are stuck with secondary? Well, no, it will not be. Honestly, since everyone can now pull an MBT from the first second, they will just do that.

Resources, you're forgetting about resources! 3 MBTs cost 3 times as much as 1 (duh :P ) so while 3 MBTs might win against a single three man MBT, that simply because that is what should happen when you spend three times as many resources.

And battlefield conditions making having a dedicated gunner an advantage is related to balance.

So everyone will be pulling their own MBT all the time right ? Even when out of resources, even when it's on cooldown ? Even when they could just as easily jump in that nice TOW launcher on that new MBT the guy in front just spawned ?

[Buggsy]

Originally Posted by ruskyandrei

Resources....

Will be removed from the game, or won't function the way you think it will function. Do you seriously think players on the losing team are going to stay on the losing team if they can't spawn anything? Hahahaha, that's not how ti goes.

Resources will be removed from the game before BETA is over.

Originally Posted by BlueSkies

Solo MBT < MBT with main driver/gunner + secondary AV gunner
Solo MBT < Air configured for air to ground
Solo MBT < MBT with main driver/gunner + secondary gunner when presented with multiple targets.

Simple fact: You are gimping yourself and wasting your own resources/cooldowns if you don't get yourself a secondary gunner.

So... whats the problem exactly?

The problem is that vehicles will be gimp from square 1, simply because one player can drive and gun it.

[SgtExo]

Originally Posted by Buggsy

Will be removed from the game, or won't function the way you think it will function. Do you seriously think players on the losing team are going to stay on the losing team if they can't spawn anything? Hahahaha, that's not how ti goes.

Resources will be removed from the game before BETA is over.

That wont happen, resources are PS2's endgame.

[ruskyandrei]

Originally Posted by Buggsy

Will be removed from the game, or won't function the way you think it will function. Do you seriously think players on the losing team are going to stay on the losing team if they can't spawn anything? Hahahaha, that's not how ti goes.

Resources will be removed from the game before BETA is over.

Err, no, they won't be removed.

[EisenKreutzer]

Originally Posted by Buggsy

Will be removed from the game, or won't function the way you think it will function. Do you seriously think players on the losing team are going to stay on the losing team if they can't spawn anything? Hahahaha, that's not how ti goes.

Resources will be removed from the game before BETA is over.

Yeah, no. Resources will not be removed from the game.

[fod]

Originally Posted by EisenKreutzer

Smedley on driver/gunner tanks: I realize a lot of PS1 players are going to look at stuff like this and be uncomfortable. The truth is part of our job is to get more people able to play the game right when they jump in.. but we have to balance that with making the game still be Planetside. Changes like this are just straight up more fun

how does he know whats more fun FOR ME?
this is a big hit out of my playstyle for ps2 - my main thing in ps1 was vehicle driving and getting gunners (auroras/leviathans/magriders) was NEVER a problem - infact i have a few dedicated gunners that ask me when i will be getting a vehicles next

im not saying make it ONLY my way with seperate driver/gunner but damn it i cant see any downsides to letting us have the option of which way we like it

where are those devs that said they are listening to feedback and will change things accordingly? this isnt some imbalancing feature or something its just OPTIONS to let us play how WE enjoy the game

[KaB]

Originally Posted by Buggsy

Will be removed from the game, or won't function the way you think it will function. Do you seriously think players on the losing team are going to stay on the losing team if they can't spawn anything? Hahahaha, that's not how ti goes.

Resources will be removed from the game before BETA is over.

It sounds quite unthinkable, but I've also been thinking about it and a sort of ulterior motive makes me think that SOE will forget the ressources and will end up stucking on the Tribes' F2P model (buying xp boost).

Ressources might be really interesting financially, but it might also unbalance the game. We'll see how they deal with it, but here are my thoughts.

[Buggsy]

The truth is part of our job is to get more people able to play the game right when they jump in..

That's codespeak for: dumbing down.

let me translate that for you, "We are dumbing down the game so a 4 year old can understand how to play it. Nothing is more irritating than a 4 year old at Best Buy that insists on buying a game, weak willed parents always cave in."

Originally Posted by KaB

It sounds quite unthinkable, but I've also been thinking about it and a sort of ulterior motive makes me think that SOE will forget the ressources and will end up stucking on the Tribes' F2P model (buying xp boost).

Ressources might be really interesting financially, but it might also unbalance the game. We'll see how they deal with it, but here are my thoughts.

Oh come on, you don't have to be in BETA to know it would totally unbalance the game. Players on the losing side will log off en mass.

[KaB]

Originally Posted by Buggsy

We are dumbing down the game so a 4 year old can understand how to play it. Nothing is more irritating than a 4 year old at Best Buy that insists on buying a game, weak willed parents always cave in."

Welcome in the future. Consumer is king, whatever is his age.