Malorn's Stats Thread Reborn - Page 5

SavageB · 2012-08-01, 11:36 AM

Keep K/D as a main stat. For me personally, I like competition, I like trying to be the best I can be, and improving my KD is on top of the list. I like the idea of looking up someone's profile and seeing a good or bad KD. It will seperate the goods from the bads when it comes to KILLING, but they could be exceptional when it comes to SUPPORT, this kinda stuff needs to be reflected which Im sure it will as well. You can have a great KD ratio and your teamwork/support skill set can be just as good.

This is a FPS, KD = pretty important.

Revanmug · 2012-08-01, 11:38 AM

You want a good way to show stats? Forget Battlelog and check http://bf3stats.com/

Pick a name and see by yourself.

Hydra · 2012-08-01, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by Malorn

Ill reiterate - I agree with TB entirely. Put KD in an advanced stats option, make that option private, and fill the default stats with teamwork related stats.

The masses get good encouragement, the "i want all stats!" people get what they want, and its there for the silly individuala who measure themselves by it. Its win for everyone.

This.
Planetside isn't about individual competition, or how many killstreaks you get because that isn't going to win the day, its about tactics, organization and teamwork, a K/D ratio does not promote teamwork.

Make it private , so someone can improve their individual skills and not have it a inevitable trollfest when people compare their stats to each other to criticize - not everyone is interested in getting kills

bmfof · 2012-08-01, 11:56 AM

I fail to see any sensible reason for K/D to be hidden. I'm tempted to say "because I'm horribad" isn't a valid one, but I'm sure you'll come up with something else entirely to mask.

**Malorn** · 2012-08-01, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by bmfof

I fail to see any sensible reason for K/D to be hidden. I'm tempted to say "because I'm horribad" isn't a valid one, but I'm sure you'll come up with something else entirely to mask.

TotalBiscuit answered your question quite well.

Natir · 2012-08-01, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by SavageB

Keep K/D as a main stat. For me personally, I like competition, I like trying to be the best I can be, and improving my KD is on top of the list. I like the idea of looking up someone's profile and seeing a good or bad KD. It will seperate the goods from the bads when it comes to KILLING, but they could be exceptional when it comes to SUPPORT, this kinda stuff needs to be reflected which Im sure it will as well. You can have a great KD ratio and your teamwork/support skill set can be just as good.

This is a FPS, KD = pretty important.

So what about the random people who just go on remote ledges to snipe people? Your logic would say these people are amazing players. I would say they are terrible players in terms of organization and team play. It doesn't take much skill at all to go on a roof or somewhere remote and kill people, especially if they cannot find you. You may be amazing and hide and seek but that is really all that person is good at.

This game is a MMOFPS which requires a good amount of team play and organization. Encouraging people to go for kills over capping a base or holding points doesn't make sense. If you have to hold points for resources, win the game, etc, wouldn't you want people to be encouraged to do those things? Killing people just comes with doing that. Killing should secondary to the objectives. Fulfilling the objectives will give you those kills as enemies will be attacking you.

Gugabalog · 2012-08-01, 01:44 PM

Malorn +1 for levelheaded posting.

Btw, You're one of the space nazis I actually have respect for

Also, can you give me your (on-topic) opinion on: http://www.planetside-universe.com/s...ad.php?t=46157 ?

I agree with TB.

So what about the random people who just go on remote ledges to snipe people? Your logic would say these people are amazing players. I would say they are terrible players in terms of organization and team play. It doesn't take much skill at all to go on a roof or somewhere remote and kill people, especially if they cannot find you. You may be amazing and hide and seek but that is really all that person is good at.

This game is a MMOFPS which requires a good amount of team play and organization. Encouraging people to go for kills over capping a base or holding points doesn't make sense. If you have to hold points for resources, win the game, etc, wouldn't you want people to be encouraged to do those things? Killing people just comes with doing that. Killing should secondary to the objectives. Fulfilling the objectives will give you those kills as enemies will be attacking you.

Teamplay ftw!

bmfof · 2012-08-01, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

You should try reading instead of baiting. TotalBiscuit answered your question quite well. Watch the video and educate yourself so you dont look like an ignorant troll.

Maybe you didn't quite understand what I'm asking - I want to know why should your K/D be private information and not public?

Gugabalog · 2012-08-01, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by bmfof

Maybe you didn't quite understand what I'm asking - I want to know why should your K/D be private information and not public?

Read the thread.

bmfof · 2012-08-01, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by Gugabalog

Read the thread.

Indulge me and extract that bit of it that answers my question.

Gugabalog · 2012-08-01, 02:14 PM

I will not indulge the lazy or stupid. I expect them to claw their own way out. Not to bait or anything. But I refuse to enable poor behavior on this forum especially in the form on knee jerk posting.

rTekku · 2012-08-01, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by bmfof

Indulge me and extract that bit of it that answers my question.

People have already explained why....

As I said earlier in the topic, stats have completely ruined Battlefield 3 which is supposed to be a game that focuses more so on team play than anything else. The problem with individual stats being emphasized like THIS is that many are more likely to just focus on trying to improve those individual stats which can be detrimental to team play.

Depending on your playstyle, you may or may not be able to net a high K/D.

If i'm a player who enjoys running around keeping ally tanks repaired and taking out vehicles here and there when needed, I might not have a really good K/D, but i'm still helping the team in my own way. But what everyone else sees when they click on my page is that crappy K/D. They don't see that i've repaired this many vehicles or that i've assisted my team in capturing X amount of flags. They automatically assume i'm a bad player because I have a low K/D ratio. I might end up changing my entire play style just so I don't look like a bad player because of that. Instead of running out to help friendly tanks who are engaged in a battle, I might hesitate because I don't want to risk dying a lot.

Stats are the reason Operation Metro is the most played map in the game despite being a piece of shit. It's nothing but legal stat padding.

**Malorn** · 2012-08-01, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by bmfof

Indulge me and extract that bit of it that answers my question.

It's at the top of the OP.

Goto 5:52

Click and listen. Real simple for you.

bmfof · 2012-08-01, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by Gugabalog

I will not indulge the lazy or stupid.

The irony.

I took the extra mile and read the entire thread, but, shockingly, did not find the answer to my question as promised. I also watched the video and had no luck there either. I suppose it has something to do with the fact that I don't put up whether K/D stats should be tracked at all up for debate - like you seem to think, despite my crystal clear phrasing - but would rather like to know

WHY SHOULD YOUR K/D STATS BE INVISIBLE TO ME?

Picture this: I am an outfit leader and you want to join up with my outfit. I check out your profile and I want to see your K/D so I'd know what use I can get out of you. Why would you hide it?

As for the rest...

I also love me some long-winded tirades induced with false pretense of knowledge based on anecdotal evidence about a game someone did in BF3 back in the winter of '11 where this awful kid just kept killing everyone and didn't took the objective. This shit holds merit only for pubies and if you think that by removing a simple tracker they'd all suddenly (or over time) start playing to your imaginary pipe dream of perfectly coordinated 13-year olds bound by fleets of galaxies and armor strewn across the horizon in perfect harmony... I am sorry, but I have to dissapoint you - it's not happening, ever.

Here's what I can guarantee (*hint hint*) you is happening - people with no general purpose or idea will act out like they always act out in any other game, stat or no stat attached to their meaningless existence.

You people need to realize that no game mechanic can redeem the inherant human flaw of stupidity. All you can do is try and funnel it into something useful for the rest of us - removing tracking or keeping it hidden does nothing to further this principle - it just serves to frustrate and confuse people. Whereas, if present, it allows quicker and more accurate shifting of player potential.

Tracking is how you funnel people over time - it tells you where you lack and where you excel; and the more in-depth it is, the more of an accurate performance picture it gives you and your fellow squad mates. Yes, placing priority on K/D in a game like PS2 is wrong, but if you do that, you'll end up lagging behind in overall performance and if you have the foresight you'll eventually correct your playstyle, like any sensible person would. If not, you'll keep lagging and eventually quit. To suggest that tracking K/D in particular has created purposless playing, is absolutely laughable.

And last but not least, it's nigh impossible to K/D whore without at least remotely playing to the objective. The game is built in such a way that it's not physically viable to stay a mile away with a rifle shooting for an hour so you'd get >1.0 K/D. The battlefield itself would shift quicker than you'd actually do something besides hurting a baddie, maybe landing a headshot at best. Unless you're actually in a very favourable position and have clear sight to loads of enemies, you'll find that playstyle very boring, probably before you run out of ammo (which will inevitably happen). And if you actually do, well, OHEMGI, you're actually useful because you're eliminating loads of enemies. On the other spectrum, being close to the objective automatically puts you in the "remotely useful" bracket, even if you just run around gunning for enemies. Rumour has it that killing all the opponent players on the objective lets you cap it

, but don't hold me to it.

On the whole, high TTK, no HP regen, limited ammo, cross-dependancy throughout classes, are all mechanics that discourage the lone ranger playstyle - stat tracking, and especially K/D tracking, is completely irrelevant.

**Malorn** · 2012-08-01, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by bmfof

WHY SHOULD YOUR K/D STATS BE INVISIBLE TO ME?

Picture this: I am an outfit leader and you want to join up with my outfit. I check out your profile and I want to see your K/D so I'd know what use I can get out of you. Why would you hide it?

Public stats only lead to poeple judging people by stats which they may or may not consider relevant. You have the right to be an idiot and judge people by K/D, but the fact that you can judge them will change their behavior. They should be able to play the game however they want to play it without your scrutiny.

If they want in your outfit, and they have K/D hidden and you think it's important then tell them to un-hide it or don't invite them into your outfit. Pretty simple there KD pro.

----

Moving on to the discussion..Team Fortress 2 really is the example PS2 should be taking for stats. TotalBiscuit called it out as a good example and I absolutely agree.

The most prominent stat is which team is winning, followed by individual scores, which is a normalized stat which is contributed by a lot of different behaviors, like healing, repairing, assists, destructions, captures, defenses, and kills too of course. Each one has an individual weight

You have the all-up Score stat, which is what is prominent and clearly displayed as the important stat. Then there's a breakdown about how you get that score and other stats. They don't even have K/D here. If you want that you have to do the math yourself.

It's clear from this scoreboard that winning, and scoring points are how you excel at the game. It does the background work of weighting different activities, and you can see the raw numbers if you like, but TF2 has good team-play and people do play for objectives. It's a good happy balance between promoting the right type of gameplay and giving people the raw stats. The game, not the players, dictates what is important.