I'm seriously worried about the new player experience - Page 4

VaderShake · 2012-11-19, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by rTekku

Many people haven't played a Battlefield game believe it or not. There will be a lot of people who've played very little or no FPS games before.

Just wanted to point out that the couple dozen guys I played Battlefield with jumped into the PS2 beta and pretty seemlessly picked it up and figured out where to go and what to do. Sometimes .....(GASP) we even had to think or search a forum for anwsers since there was no guide book. I don't think everyone will be hopelessly lost and truthfully you might not want the people who need their hands held every second playing PS2. It would potentially water down the base to very low level.

BF3 catered to the COD crowed and some would complain "OMG this map is so big I don't know where I am supposed to go or what to do" *these were generally the people I wanted to seek out and kill first* my point is PS2 will not be for everyone we just need it to capture those who desire a more complex FPS on a much larger scale.

Rolfski · 2012-11-19, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by elfailo

Not judging you say? Well in that case allow me to share some of my own ideas:

- Put pictures of pornstars on Sunderers and Galaxies to attract people to them
- Allow Buzzcutpsycho to use continent-wide VOIP
- Try using prayer and telepathy to reach the minds of the newbs
- Implement corporal punishment for not following orders
- Allow command rank 5's to turn themselves into sheep
- Promise people free healthcare insurance if they follow orders
- Build a system of indestructible trains that go all over the continent, can also be used for sight-seeing (I know some very interesting cultural attractions on Indar that are still kind of obscure)
- Play 2 Live Crew tracks in the Warpgate to scare people into combat (works best on female players)
- Allow players to leave a bread crum trail so they can find their way home when they get lost
- Implement a special perk that allows you to take control over someone else's character
- Build yellow brick roads from warpgates to all the bases
etc.

Very constructive, if I didn't knew better I would assume you're just another forum troll.

brinkdadrink · 2012-11-19, 01:35 PM

Maybe add later - They are inside a galaxy being told about the 3 empire fight (very short and the galaxy is not on the map)

hotdropped into the sanctuary next to the VR building with a preset waypoint on it and they are staring at the doors with a sign saying VR training.

Go inside building and either auto load VR training like in PS1 or have a equip term but with VR on it where they hit E to get into it.

Have either terms for different training or have the only npc's in the game there giving instructions (This way because you can always restart them at any point where as automatically start you wont know intuitively how to restart them if you wanted - not that you would need to)

Right by that would be a vehicle bay and air bay

in the surounding area would be a 1 of each base:
tech plant
Bio facility
(Blanking on the 3rd one sorry)
A normal tower
one of the random small bases

This is great not only for new people but also for Outfit training because I know several outfits that want to find a random base to train on. Can have the bases auto change to an empire 1 minute after being taken and all terminals, turrets, gens fully repaired on change over and also the capture mechanics would be speed up 2x or 3x.

Have everything unlocked so anybody looking to buy something with certs is able to try it out. This one place will serve 3 main purposes ( New player training, Player weapon experimentation, Outfit / friends training on base capture ).

The tutorials the new player has would be interactive so they would go capture a base with waypoints, pull specific vehicles and so on. Get credit with some XP only for the first time they do it and they can buy there first stuff.

When they exit VR they are back on their own but know where to go if they truly get lost and want to get informed by themselves, otherwise they can always ask.

SGTalon · 2012-11-19, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by Babyfark McGeez

Edit: Solution: A proper bootcamp for new recruits where a comical yelling drill instructor gives out a real introduction to the whole game. Additionally a drill instructor / General NPC in the warpgates that gives further informations on specific topics (what the heck is a SCU sire?).

Sounds like the perfect opportunity to implement the Character that Higby created waaaay back in one of the first PS2 videos!!!

Can they do it in 2 days?

Bear · 2012-11-19, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by rTekku

Many people haven't played a Battlefield game believe it or not. There will be a lot of people who've played very little or no FPS games before.

I don't believe that's going to be the case. There are so many fps's out there that it's almost impossible to not have experience in something.

I'm sure there will be some brand new players but the numbers will be staggeringly small.

Rothnang · 2012-11-19, 01:57 PM

I honestly think the much bigger problem is that getting dropped into a hotzone can easily mean being one of 3 poor sods who got dumped in front of the enemy continental forced sexual penetration of the posterior zerg and it will make them instantly hate the game when they are being spawncamped for easy XP while they still try to figure out which end of the rifle to point at the enemy.

Rolfski · 2012-11-19, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by elfailo

As opposed to someone who is so clueless about today's gaming scene that he doesn't even understand the importance of introductory video's on youtube? U jelly that xfactor gets to make video's for SOE while you scrub it up on these terrible forums? Is that why you try to make it look unimportant?

Maybe if you'd be more challenging I'd spend more time talking to you, but unfortunately you're more run of the mill PSU fodder. You probably spend more time debating under the veil of being 'constructive' on these forums than you actually play the game.

P.S. Hamma, this post is definitely grounds for banning me. Can you let your wife do it though? It would make it a lot more worthwhile for me.

I'm sorry to hear that you actually are a troll, not sure what made you so angry and disrespectful to other people. At least you have the wisdom to foresee the consequences of your trash talking.

Oh, and in case of YouTube tutorials: They are very useful and valuable but not for anyone. Many people lack the patience for it and want to get right into the action.

Envenom · 2012-11-19, 02:06 PM

I'm so tired of this these threads. It seems players nowadays have degenerated into completely mindless zombies that need developers to hold their hands and show them every single facet of the game in order to enjoy it.

Christ, use some intuition. Scrape your knees, get out there and just play! Who the F hasn't played an FPS in this day and age??? Come on people. There is so much melodrama in this thread it's sick. FPS's are not that complicated and anyone with a chimpanzee level education and some intuition can figure it out.

It will be ok.

MrBloodworth · 2012-11-19, 02:06 PM

Never assume an ability level of your player base.

Rothnang · 2012-11-19, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by Envenom

I'm so tired of this these threads. It seems players nowadays have degenerated into completely mindless zombies that need developers to hold their hands and show them every single facet of the game in order to enjoy it.

Christ, use some intuition. Scrape your knees, get out there and just play! Who the F hasn't played an FPS in this day and age??? Come on people. There is so much melodrama in this thread it's sick. FPS's are not that complicated and anyone with a chimpanzee level education and some intuition can figure it out.

It will be ok.

The problem Planetside faces is that people are used to matches where both sides have the same number of players, and spawn locations that can't be camped. Sure, Planetside has considerable upsides that those games don't have, but getting overrun by an enemy Zerg with no chance to fight back or getting spawncamped while the voiceover yells at you that you can't lose the facility is a frustrating experience that you simply don't have in FPSes that are based on matches.

People need to be willing to stick around long enough to see the good, and right now it just looks like you are a heck of a lot more likely to encounter the bad. There are very few locations in the game where you get really good battles going, most of it is huge zergs dancing around each other, and both steamrolling empty bases and getting steamrolled aren't super fun.

Holi · 2012-11-19, 02:56 PM

Couple short (2-3 minutes max) and to the point tutorial videos that can be launched from the *drum-roll* launcher while you wait for PS2 to install.

First introduces the factions.

Later ones introduce classes and basic capture mechanics, advanced capture mechanics (like Spawn Control Units :P) and lastly vehicles.

Bonus style points if the "after-faction" videos are done with faction specific POV and have some catchy intro and outro phrases like "How to secure and capture an enemy tower. ... And that's how you capture a tower!" also tailored to be narrated by someone who can pull of that faction's style/accent/whatever best.

20% cooler if the narration is available in female and male variants.

VGLance · 2012-11-19, 04:13 PM

I am as new as it gets. I've never played a FPS in my life before 4 days ago when I got into the Beta. Yes it was at first overwhelming. Yes I died more than I got kills, like a 2:1 ratio. Half the time it was some form of suicide or another (dropping a grenade at my feet, falling off a platform, crashing a plane, etc). It was really frustrating.

But... all I had to do was google: 'planetside 2 tutorial' or any combination of words like 'beginner's guide' and was bombarded with links to forums and amazing youtube videos that gave me all the information I needed. They all stressed the importance of finding a good platoon to join and to not try to lone wolf it.

The videos covered all the basics about navigation, the classes, and the interface. The platoon I joined is hardcore in the sense that they run very sophisticated operations, yet are also very patient, welcoming to noobs like me, and are incredibly friendly and informative to help fill in all the little gaps.

Where did I find such a gem of a platoon? On the forums in less than 10 seconds... the 666th Devil Dogs.

Now there are two philosophies here. You can say well that's wonderful that you took personal accountability and used basic resourcefulness, patience, perseverance and a number of other emotional intelligence traits to find success, but we can't expect the average player to do that. They'll just rage quit. We need to provide for them.

The other philosophy is that we don't keep caving to the progressive ideologies that are decaying the survival traits in the people of Western Society and we give people the opportunity to take personal responsibility for their own success because we know that the greatest feelings of accomplishment happen when we do things ourselves instead of having things done for us.

I got all the information I needed to find enjoyment and success in this game within minutes of firing up google. If that is too much to ask for, then we've already destroyed our society enough to the point that there is very little hope.

And frankly, I don't want to be playing a team-based game with players who are that dependent and unable to summon even the slightest amount of effort. It wouldn't be fun for me.

Rothnang · 2012-11-19, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by VGLance

Now there are two philosophies here. You can say well that's wonderful that you took personal accountability and used basic resourcefulness, patience, perseverance and a number of other emotional intelligence traits to find success, but we can't expect the average player to do that. They'll just rage quit. We need to provide for them.

The other philosophy is that we don't keep caving to the progressive ideologies that are decaying the survival traits in the people of Western Society and we give people the opportunity to take personal responsibility for their own success because we know that the greatest feelings of accomplishment happen when we do things ourselves instead of having things done for us.

Progressivism has nothing to do with taking away personal responsibility for your own success, quite the opposite. It's about creating a level playing field so that success or failure are genuinely up to the effort you put in and not your circumstances. It's the ideological response to a bunch of dickish elitists who excuse social stratification by acting as though privilege has no bearing on what you can accomplish.

So, yea, get it right if you're going to make this about politics.

As far as running a profitable game is concerned, nobody comes into the game with special privilege, and people leaving hurts the game, not the player, so it's an entirely different question anyways. Having to look up information and delve deep to learn how to play a game well are perfectly acceptable to have - as long as the game doesn't fail to get people invested enough to do so. If people aren't having fun it's not them failing at Planetside 2, it's Planetside 2 failing to win them as a customer.

TanknSpank · 2012-11-19, 10:06 PM

I think the starting experience is fine because as it is.

In EVE when you start out you can't even move your ship in an intuitive way. You have no way to see a map that shows you where to go to fight and there's no people to follow (nor can you easily follow when they warp off). If you do manage to find some NPC pirates you stand no chance to kill them in your n00b ship (not to mention you can't even attack them if you haven't learned about locking on targets).

On the other hand in PS2 you drop at a hotspot. There's people shooting each other. You start shooting at them. Left button, WASD, extremely intuitive controls. You might shoot your side, and you'll get a warning. Eventually you figure out to shoot the guys shooting at you / that have markers on them. You'll probably die, but when you spawn there's a bunch of other people spawning around you and you can follow the stream of friendlies back to some combat. Sure, you won't be the most effective player on the field, but you're having fun fighting. Vehicles, unlocks, boosts, classes, turrets, repair, healing, control points can all come later as fast or as slow as you care to research/learn/ask. But even if you don't, you can still have fun running around and shooting people.

And if you've played other recent FPSs you're already familiar with classes, control points, vehicle stations, weapon unlocks, etc. If you've played an MMO / RPG then you're familiar with 'go here' markers on the map, inventory management, equipment 'vendors', etc.

Ghoest9 · 2012-11-19, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by Envenom

I'm so tired of this these threads. It seems players nowadays have degenerated into completely mindless zombies that need developers to hold their hands and show them every single facet of the game in order to enjoy it.

Christ, use some intuition. Scrape your knees, get out there and just play! Who the F hasn't played an FPS in this day and age??? Come on people. There is so much melodrama in this thread it's sick. FPS's are not that complicated and anyone with a chimpanzee level education and some intuition can figure it out.

It will be ok.

UMM - get a clue.

People have needed to be taught to work together since the dawn od civilization.
Its easy to figure out how to run around and shoot the gun at people.
But its not intuitive to understand the dynamics of the battle and how the general hoard of players moves and reacts.

If you have played PS1 or to a lesser degree some other games youll already have a feel for it - but it is something you learn its not particularly fun for most people to learn it by observation.