TKing a Sundie to put yours down... - Page 2

Buggsy · 2012-11-20, 12:12 AM

How about sunder experience goes on a curve. You can only gain experience off of one player spawning off it every 60 seconds.

This will take care of leechers.

Bocheezu · 2012-11-20, 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by Dagron

Yes people should take care of their toys, but you can be concerned about losing your sunderer without forcing others to lose theirs when they try to help the empire.

Ever thought of just undeploying without moving out in the open so the other ones can deploy in the safe place they wanted to deploy at? If they still get blown up you can then redeploy until someone else gets a sundie in another safe position further ahead. Of course you should check the map to make sure they're not in a stupid position first.

I could do that, but unfortunately, I want to fight as well. I don't want to sit there and stare at the map all day. Oh here comes an AMS, UNDEPLOY, (sit and wait), oh shit, his got blown up and I have to redeploy, OH WAIT, HERE COMES ANOTHER AMS, UNDEPLOY AGAIN. Fuck that. I want to drop it and fight like everybody else. That's what PS1 was.

Dagron · 2012-11-20, 12:18 AM

Understandable, but chances are you only have to do that after some time when the fight has moved up ahead. People should always let the owner of the deployed sundie know ahead of time when they're planning to push another AMS forward.

Edit: of course all that requires some level of coordination that we hardly see today, even though it should be there... hopefully people will learn in time.

Buggsy · 2012-11-20, 12:19 AM

I once put a sunderer down 200 meters away from a town, the fight was progressing well, so I found a place to move up 100 meters closer, I undeployed and almost immediately someone deployed right next to enemies spawn point in town. 60 seconds later theirs blew up, and I was too far away from my sunderer to redeploy it, then mine was blown up, then the attack ended.

Getting the closest you can possibly get is not the best thing, especially if the ASS END OF THE SUNDERER is pointed right at the enemy spawn door.

Leechers force others to not spend that extra 20 seconds maneuvering the sunderer's front end to point to the spawn door. Nerf leeching experience.

ericbsmith · 2012-11-20, 12:25 AM

Originally Posted by Dagron

Ever thought of just undeploying without moving out in the open so the other ones can deploy in the safe place they wanted to? If they still get blown up you can then redeploy until someone else gets a sundie in another safe position further ahead. Of course you should check the map to make sure they're not in a stupid position first.

The problem there is that you have no idea where the other Sundy is, if it actually gets deployed, or if it gets blown up unless you go out and die yourself or have squadmates keeping you fully apprised of the situation (which your average random squad won't bother to do). In the meantime you are completely out of the battle yourself because you are babysitting an undeployed Sundy waiting to redeploy it. If you dare leave it and go join the fray you won't be at your Sundy to redeploy it should the other one get blown up.

All in all the Sundy radius mechanic is a bit whacked. It reenforces the "hurry up and be the first to deploy so you can get the XP" meme which leads to very poor placement. This leads directly to the whole "TK the deployed Sundy because it's too much trouble to actually figure out who the owner is" perversity. The basic problem is that the radius really is too large, leading to most bases where only one Sundy can be deployed, two if you get a lucky spot on the far side.

Dagron · 2012-11-20, 12:34 AM

I agree the radius mechanic is far from ideal, i was just commenting on the guy's unwillingness to give up the safe spot deployment, they way he talked about it sounded like he was resisting more out of stubbornness than anything.
If he was parked in a place that held no benefit and refused to help others advance the fight, he'd be the wrong one, and how do we know for sure what was the situation?

TheSaltySeagull · 2012-11-20, 12:45 AM

Originally Posted by Dagron

I agree the radius mechanic is far from ideal, i was just commenting on the guy's unwillingness to give up the safe spot deployment. There are situations that require you to do just that.

His unwillingness is also a result of the radius mechanic. Before sundy drivers could be more aggressive because they knew there was most likely other deployed sundys in the area. So if yours gets destroyed trying to move up its not a big deal because there are others.

Under the new system tho that is not always the case. The radius means that you can not count on other deployed sundys to be there so if you move up and get destroyed an attack can stall because there are no other sundys in the area that are close enough to support the attack. The radius also makes leap frogging sundys more difficult.

This encourages drivers to play more conservatively and not want to risk losing what might be the only decently placed sundy by moving it and thus cause an entire attack to fail. And this will remain the case as long as the radius mechanic prevents more than one or possibly two sundys to be placed close enough to a fight to actually be relevant.

Ostekake · 2012-11-20, 01:03 AM

Use region chat (/re) and ask for it to be removed.
Everyone should make sure it gets 'removed'

provided its blocking something like a vpad under control,
that needs an ams - or forces troops to spend to much time moving to a target or objective.
(again - use /re chat, and for god sake.. dont use yell

)
But this is tricky stuff and requires a good deal of experience to determine.

There are also several ways to manage spawn points proper with teamplay.
Outfits should get this down to an art form to the extent where multiple outfits easy
will know the range needed for the staging AMS, where it needs to be for a forward aggressive
ams to manage to deploy in the right spot.
You can even have multiple staging AMSs to block bad areas so there really is only one good spot
to put up the 'golden' super ams - most of the time at the CP or in the vpad.
A good trick is to set a squad or personal WP on the spot where the ams should be, and make sure a staging ams (if its needed) is placed far enough away (220ish m) for the next ams to move in.

The AMS is N O T the lone wolfs transport to target, deploy in a 'safe' spot and then
proceed to zerg the base for kill exp, while blocking far superior deploy locations.

PS: if i have ever destroyed a friendly ams or generator where you where spawning - like my post

Bocheezu · 2012-11-20, 01:22 AM

Originally Posted by Dagron

I agree the radius mechanic is far from ideal, i was just commenting on the guy's unwillingness to give up the safe spot deployment, they way he talked about it sounded like he was resisting more out of stubbornness than anything.
If he was parked in a place that held no benefit and refused to help others advance the fight, he'd be the wrong one, and how do we know for sure what was the situation?

For me, the only real problem is when the empire is warpgate camped. The other cases, I don't really care and my AMS isn't really swaying the battle one way or the other. I will often park near a satellite capture point just so we have a backup in case some douchebag sneaks in there and takes the satellite back. I get very few spawns; I don't care. I am bigger into supplying vehicle ammo and don't even deploy most of the time.

When warpgate camped, however, you can run into a situation where the only safe place to deploy is too far away from the capture point to capture it. I did this as NC on Esamir, trying to take the North Weigh Station (NWS). There are really two reasonable spots to deploy here. One is the hill directly south of the capture point. This is often too close (~100 m) to the capture point and gets blown up because TR tanks on the hill behind the NWS spawn room have a view of the whole thing and they just sit there waiting for a Sundy to make the jump to that hill before they drive over there and blow it up. Then they retreat to hiding behind the spawn room again. There is a hill another 100m back that is much safer, but usually there is not enough zerg to make any headway. Everywhere else you are a sitting duck. I park at the safe hill, this huge dramafest ensues in /re about moving the Sundy up, and how I'm the asshole that doesn't move the Sundy. I just went to another continent and let the dumbshits jump pad to the tower and walk from there, it was a waste of time dealing with these people.

I'm sure there are plenty of other situations where there are limited places to deploy, and the hops between deployed spots are less than 200m so you can't have both deploy spots at the same time. The long and short of it is that 200m radius is way too big for a lot of the landscape features you encounter when assaulting a base.

Rago · 2012-11-20, 01:26 AM

This also Happend to me , which was a quiet stupid thing to have.

other Situation :
On the other hand my sundy was near a Base we took the base and a outfit came by they spawned a sundy inside and aked over the chat is someone could redeploy the sunder outside, ive done that and we all could spawn in the middle of the Base, why not ?
Communicate each other !

As for the other Griefing for 200 XP Guy´s , they are a bunch of Morrons,...

Timithos · 2012-11-20, 01:27 AM

The 200m radius also means a 400m diameter. It's ridiculous. I can place a sundy in an Amp station, and my deployment bubble covers the entire facility walls included, and then some! So nobody else can run a sunderer behind a tower/generator area to defend. In PS1 you could fit 4 deployed sundies in the inside corners of a facility (unless someone deployed at a central spot.) In PS2 you can maybe fit 2 inside the walls.

The 200m radius needs to be reduced to around 100m for starters.

I can understand why people destroy these things, because a poorly placed sundy is a tactical nightmare. It's the different between winning a sector, and never winning it. A 10-20 meter placement towards a capture point can be the difference in winning or stalemating. Outfits that know what they're doing are not going to put up with this, and sundy tking is going to be just a "uh huh" tactic without a second thought. They don't have time to find the owner in region chat. The deployment bubble needs to be reduced.

Raka Maru · 2012-11-20, 02:16 AM

Sunderer leapfrog is nothing new. It's usually done by platoon size groups. What we have now is a broken system that can be fixed by reducing (probably greatly) the deploy radius.

Don't expect the dedicated Sunderer driver to "give up his spot for the good of the empire". They are trying to help, but the mechanics are wracked right now. He may or may not do it and its not really his fault, it's the game mechanic. Default Sunderer has 20 min cool down and 400 resource cost. Dedicated Sunderer drivers are not infantrymen who jump out and join the attack, but hang back and continually look for better spots to help the fight and repair their truck.

If someone TK's my Sunderer (which has not happened to me yet), I would hope to be able to add them to a ban list that would prevent them from ever spawning in my truck again. Please Devs, add this feature, along with the report/mute/ignore to get these TK'rs out of my hair.

DDSHADE · 2012-11-20, 02:59 AM

I was about to say... How did you know the guy in the vanguard was his friend??? Vanguards are the enemy...

Then I realized not everyone plays TR.. :P

I hope they find a way to lock the right peoples weapons, sometimes people DO just run the hell in front of you while you're shooting or driving. Seriously one of the loading screen tips needs to be "LOOK BOTH WAYS BEFORE YOU CROSS THE ROAD!"

PredatorFour · 2012-11-20, 03:22 AM

@ OP .... Get used to it! This is Planetside... Shit like that will happen often so get used to it!

Eggy · 2012-11-20, 04:36 AM

Yes the current S-AMS placement issue is not working, but thats no escuse for TKing.
When theres lots of ESFs about and I see retard after retard spawning as a sniper, I dont go killing them all.
People need to get there issues sorted, and work around it.

Ive been TKd for repairing a sunderer and ive had my AMS tkd,and then one of the big outfits on Eurydome deployed theres in the exact same spot. So its not all about tactics or combat viability.

Killing a sunderer takes alot of firepower. Its not something you can do by accident, ever. Grief in general needs bigger penaltys and AMS grief needs even more.