Higby on Air/AA balance.. Is it the fast track to Airside?

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Dragonskin

So you are really just upset that this isn't pay to win? All that AA talk and that is what it boils down to? interesting.

Ehr no, certing into something is a form of purchase as well. 1000 CP is not something you gain cheap.

Originally Posted by Graphic J

I find no problem with Air being the Air killer. AA is basically a deterrent in almost any other Dog-fighting game I've played, why not PS2.

Are those dogfighter games AA units manned by players and defending players on the ground?


This isn't a PvE flight sim with only PvP A2A. Ground units have just as much right to fun as the aircav do. And yes, they have equaly long if not longer timers than air units. And yes, they too require resources - and in case of the Sunderer, double that of the ESF.

So really, can you lot come up with a good argument for Aircav soloing being more powerful than other units soloing? No...

[Ghoest9]

Originally Posted by Dragonskin

Umm.. not going to worry about the rest of your post.. I suppose you actually know who Levelcap is if you are using him for a reference.. but here.. just incase.

He IS a one man army by himself. So yes, please use top level gamers as justification for all your future battles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0ZmA...UiW_V4dwHxY0Mg

To add... in this video we can come to the conclusion that Heavy Assault is OP. He takes out tanks solo and all kinds of infantry.

If levelcap can kill 60(or even 30) aircraft in a row with out dying as an infantry then yes you have a point.

Otherwise you lose.

[RobUK]

Originally Posted by boogy

I just wanted to add to this post that I think Higby was misquoted. He said, something along the lines of - "right now the only thing that can counter Liberators are air, and we need to fix that." Again not a direct quote, but he did aknowledge that air should not be only countered by air.

That's odd because I'm sure that KevMo said that he wanted things that way? The idea was that Libs would kill tanks and ESF's would kill Libs. Friendly ESF's would kill enemy ESF's that were in turn killing friendly libs.

What he described sounded awesome because it gave ESF's and Libs clearly defined roles. It certainly sounds a lot more interesting than the dull and predictable air spam that we have now. This game is every bit as bad now as when we had the massive tank spam in beta.

[RobUK]

Originally Posted by Figment

So really, can you lot come up with a good argument for Aircav soloing being more powerful than other units soloing? No...

Exactly.

This is the real crux of the matter. The ESF is just too good at too many things. It is the omnipotent solo vehicle of PS2. It absolutely encourages and rewards solo play and requires team play to deal with it. It is a relatively low risk high reward cert farming tool in comparison to other offensive vehicles in the game

A classic example of counter play. A big mistake in any PvP game.

[Figment]

The thing is, they at first made these guns that were decent against "stuff in general", then they added "sidegrades". Sidegrades suggesting they'd be worse at one thing opposed to being better at others.

Yet we have straight upgrades where any gun works excellent on for instance infantry. I mean, you could easily create an alternative to a hull mounted gun by adding wing mounted alternating firing guns of a higher caliber and lower rate of fire. The latter would be better against large objects, but horrible at targeting small, maneuvring units because of its wider spread and worse rate of fire (thus lower damage over time in one straight firing line).

Instead, you get large splash damage rockets on top of a gun. >.>

[boogy]

Originally Posted by RobUK

That's odd because I'm sure that KevMo said that he wanted things that way? The idea was that Libs would kill tanks and ESF's would kill Libs. Friendly ESF's would kill enemy ESF's that were in turn killing friendly libs.

What he described sounded awesome because it gave ESF's and Libs clearly defined roles. It certainly sounds a lot more interesting than the dull and predictable air spam that we have now. This game is every bit as bad now as when we had the massive tank spam in beta.

well maybe it just isn't working. I think ESF are easily combated by a couple of dual bursters. Libs are the ones that need more than just air to combat. I really hate how infantry are ants to air. I would prefer infantry just being straight up hard to hit with any type of air.

[Figment]

See, I can understand that a single handed burster is a deterent. Fine, he's not certed into the full specialisation. But a Dual Burster should hands down beat an aircav shouldn't it? I mean, if even after you gave up ALL OTHER FIREPOWER against ANY AND ALL OTHER UNITS, AND THEN you STILL can't win and are STILL just a deterent on your own against other solo players (against three crew or more units I can understand to a point), then what's the bloody point of specializing in AA? :/



On the Lightning, something struck me (pun intended), they were talking about making more powerful MBT weapons for dedicated gunners, right? I wonder if they want a more powerful AA gun among those options. In which case the Skyguard should be relatively weak.

Same could be true for buggy gunner weapons.

[SKYeXile]

this thread


I do like how you all think Air is Op though and ignore what's obviously OP...lets see who can guess what it really is.

[RobUK]

Originally Posted by Figment

On the Lightning, something struck me (pun intended), they were talking about making more powerful MBT weapons for dedicated gunners, right? I wonder if they want a more powerful AA gun among those options. In which case the Skyguard should be relatively weak.

Same could be true for buggy gunner weapons.

Apparently in the beta there was also a more powerful AA MAX in the cert tree. I think I read that it had a bigger clip and faster firing rate.

It's not there now though.

I always thought that there would be basic cheap AA and that a more powerful AA weapon could be unlocked by dedicated players that could really specialise in it. That would ensure that it was limited to those that devoted their "career" to it.

I envisaged that "more powerful" anything in the game would follow the same concept.

I hate this one man army stuff that is already prevalent before the game is even 2 weeks old

[RobUK]

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

this thread

laughing derisively - YouTube

I do like how you all think Air is Op though and ignore what's obviously OP...lets see who can guess what it really is.

Go on then give us your opin...I mean the facts then

[SKYeXile]

Originally Posted by RobUK

Go on then give us your opin...I mean the facts then

Do the math.

[RobUK]

I want a gun that gives 127% accuracy.

How cert I this plox?

[cooonips]

in time it should get better by its self. part of the problem is the cost of items so its going to take a while for enough people to unlock anti air

[RobUK]

Originally Posted by cooonips

in time it should get better by its self. part of the problem is the cost of items so its going to take a while for enough people to unlock anti air

Why would anybody actually bother?

The only time people will waste certs on being a deterrent is when they have spent certs on all the other things they need and want first.

Once people have spare certs kicking around, then they might. But that's a looong way off in the future and I'm willing to bet that the AI MAX will be far more desirable to that kind of person than AA.

The same goes for vehicular based AA. It'll be something to blow excess certs on when there's nothing else left to waste them on.

[Helwyr]

Wow has this thread shot off. Actually less Aircav players trying to defend the undefendable than I expected on PSU.

Another option if Air is going to be completely overpowered is for SOE just to give us maps where Aircraft are not a factor, full tree coverage on Hossin or Foresal, or very poor visibility on Searus (including IR/Thermal) due to smoke and ash. Then players can just vote on this issue with their feet.

@ a certain leader board player never missing an opportunity to expose his e-peen in a thread. Not sure what point he's trying to make in regard to the topic at hand though, as none of it seems relevant.