Higby on Air/AA balance.. Is it the fast track to Airside? - Page 16

Miffy · 2012-12-03, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by CasualCat

And a single ESF can also take it down easier/faster than it could three ESFs.

In fact we had ESFs on voice coms flying cover for our Libs the other night. Even with fully manned Libs and that air cover, a determined ESF could usually take down a Lib before it'd die itself. A rocket volley can take 80-90% of a lib's health down in a single pass.

I don't think rocket pods are the only issue. I think ESFs just have too much health. Not familiar with Gals, but with Libs at least, an ESF can usually just tank the tail gun damage to kill the Lib. So Libs and Gals might be generally balanced, but Libs at least still feel like a free kill for ESFs. That shouldn't be the case if they're within the tail gun arc.

The other issue is XP gain/cost for piloting a Lib/Gal vs an ESF. That certainly isn't balanced.

They don't have too much health.

2 lock on missles and dead, you have to get out pretty fast after one and usually get taken down shortly after anyways.

Flak is an instant get out of there because in seconds they fuck you up.

The standard MAX Unit AA and the ones on vehicles I ignore, they don't do anything really, mainly because it's too hard to hit a moving target with them.

I cannot tank a Lib rear gunner, however the weakness of that gunner seat is it cannot fire above, so all you need to do is stay high and you can easily take out the lib.

CasualCat · 2012-12-03, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by Miffy

<snip>
I cannot tank a Lib rear gunner, however the weakness of that gunner seat is it cannot fire above, so all you need to do is stay high and you can easily take out the lib.

Maybe it is some other issue then. I've been the tail gunner with a M20 getting near 100% hit markers and had tail gunners tell me the same thing when I'm flying only to have the Liberator die and the ESF live. The TTK seems to favor the ESF. I guess I'll need to get someone to help test it.

CrankyTRex · 2012-12-03, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by CasualCat

Maybe it is some other issue then. I've been the tail gunner with a M20 getting near 100% hit markers and had tail gunners tell me the same thing when I'm flying only to have the Liberator die and the ESF live. The TTK seems to favor the ESF. I guess I'll need to get someone to help test it.

Maybe this whole "AA is weak!" issue is actually one of hit detection or damage over range? Because if I'm taking fire from AA, lib, what have you, I'm going to leave because that stuff hurts and stacks incredibly quickly.

It also seems like the damage increases with consecutive hits, though I can't say that for sure. The first couple hits generally don't hurt that much, and then as whatever it is trains in, the vehicle health bar drops like a rock.

KaskaMatej · 2012-12-03, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by CrankyTRex

It also seems like the damage increases with consecutive hits, though I can't say that for sure.

It does not. This just proves how little you play Planetside 2.

MrBloodworth · 2012-12-03, 11:45 AM

I think some people forget this is a Combined arms game, not a game of Rambos like other titles of late.

Having Air as the counter to air is very logical. Makes the air game fun for those that do it, and puts a need for air other than tank busting.

When aircraft move into sovereign space, they launch interceptors, with G2A as support.

Emperor Newt · 2012-12-03, 11:46 AM

I bought AA weapons straight away at release and by now I really regret that decision. But I don't think that a lot of stuff needs much fixing, especially skyguards and turrets only need slight adjustments which have been mentioned here several times.

The only thing that is completely broken by design are G2A rockets. They simply don't work for what they are meant to do. Every other AA weapons does the same job way better. I would even argue that a dedicated Mana turret for AA is of more use in many situations.
G2A rockets simply become useless against skilled pilots who certed into flying. Of course I don't want G2A rockets to clear the sky on their own but at least they should be onpar with the other AA in damaging air consistenly. But the more certs and skill a pilot gets, the worse G2A rockets get. Until the point where they are only usefully against bad pilots. Except in the situation where you can heavily outnumber air, but then you could just pull single burster maxes and do an even better and faster job.

They are just broken and I doubt that they can be fixed easily without making them too strong. I doubt that there is a sweet spot of balance for these things. They are broken by design. You cannot balance a fire and forget weapon outside of 1on1 situations, which are not applicable for PS2.
I would even say they should remove them and replace them with something else that is not fire and forget.

MrBloodworth · 2012-12-03, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Emperor Newt

G2A rockets simply become useless against skilled pilots

Not seeing the problem here. Skill is skill.

CrankyTRex · 2012-12-03, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by KaskaMatej

It does not. This just proves how little you play Planetside 2.

Emperor Newt · 2012-12-03, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

Not seeing the problem here. Skill is skill.

So why does it only apply to pilots?
The problem is that it should be able to hit a skilled player if you are evenly skilled. Which with G2A rockets you cannot as long as you do not catch him completely off-guard (which would be strange for a skilled pilot).

MrBloodworth · 2012-12-03, 11:57 AM

It doesn't.

Skill is also a Squad organizing 3 heaves to fire at the same time. Dodge that on your low to ground rocket strafe

What you want is a definitive hammer for the lofty nail.

Wahooo · 2012-12-03, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

I think some people forget this is a Combined arms game, not a game of Rambos like other titles of late.

Having Air as the counter to air is very logical. Makes the air game fun for those that do it, and puts a need for air other than tank busting.

When aircraft move into sovereign space, they launch interceptors, with G2A as support.

Nobody is denying that it is ok that air be there to counter air.

HOWVER; we have a platform in the game called the skyguard whose ONLY target is air, and is sucks (&(#&%(^***(& at actually doing anything about it. The thing is a coffin, and 90% of the time that i've been in one I get killed by... wait for it... rocket pods.
^^^^^
That is the real whole point to the outrage about AA. We have a weapon that can do NOTHING but shoot flak at air and the only thing it can successfully kill are pilots that would have inevitably crashed into the ground by themselves anyway.

BTW: I can't post this on the official forums but,

Subject
Re-fund on Station Cash spent on the Skyguard

Discussion Thread
Response Via Email (Customer Support) 12/02/2012 01:56 PM
Greetings Wahooo,

I wanted to get back to you regarding your request for a refund today. I was able to look into this for you and have successfully refunded the Station Cash used to purchase these Marketplace items today. We appreciate your patience and understanding, as we handle our ticket queue today. Please advise, reimbursements, in general, are limited and may be denied in the future, depending on the situation. If you have any further questions or concerns, please feel free to contact us again in the future. Take care and good luck.

Regards,
Operative Autobahn
Sony Online Entertainment, LLC

Answer Title: Refunds
Answer Link: http://soe-ing.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/
Answer Title: [PS2] END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT
Answer Link: http://soe-ing.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/
Customer By Web Form (--- soe) 12/02/2012 10:40 AM
I've read now that the stance of the dev team is that the skyguard is fine balance wise and that, as many pilots want to claim, it is meant not to actually kill aircraft but deter them. I would not have spent any station cash on this weapon if I new up front it was not supposed to get kills, especially considering the significant nerf to the platform from where it was in Beta which I based my purchase off of. If it can't be refunded then I ask for the skyguard to be placed in the decorative slot on the lighting because if the intention is to keep it in its current state as something to simply scare aircraft it belongs in the same category as the skull helmets for infantry.

Incident Reference #121202-001092
Product Level 1: PlanetSide 2
Category Level 1: Account / Billing Questions
Date Created: 12/02/2012 10:40 AM
Last Updated: 12/02/2012 01:56 PM
Status: Solved
Station Name:
Server: Watterson
Character ID:
Gender:
Guild Rank:

Problem Description

Character Name
Wahooo

MrBloodworth · 2012-12-03, 12:04 PM

Skyguard does not suck. Combined arms game.

Miffy · 2012-12-03, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by CasualCat

Maybe it is some other issue then. I've been the tail gunner with a M20 getting near 100% hit markers and had tail gunners tell me the same thing when I'm flying only to have the Liberator die and the ESF live. The TTK seems to favor the ESF. I guess I'll need to get someone to help test it.

Maybe it is the rocket pods, for some reason they do so much damage to aircraft, I think that needs to go.

All you have to do is reduce damage to aircraft, split AV and AI rocket pods up so you can only do one damage type at a time and I reckon they'll be pretty well balanced. I'd also like to see a gunner position on the top of the Lib but that is just me and it isn't really needed.

Emperor Newt · 2012-12-03, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

It doesn't.

Skill is also a Squad organizing 3 heaves to fire at the same time. Dodge that on your low to ground rocket strafe

What you want is a definitive hammer for the lofty nail.

If they fire at the same time all you need to do is use a flare. What you probably mean is them to coordinate their attack.
Yes, that's skill. Still I wonder by which argument it should take three highly organized players to take down one hovering lonewolf pilot?

DDSHADE · 2012-12-03, 12:21 PM

Ground AA DOES work.. just Air AA is better. The reasoning for this, simply is they want to keep EVERYTHING in the game fun. It wouldn't be fun to fly if every time you fly an aircraft you get killed right away from Skyguards. There should also be more frequent and effective cover from aircraft available for vehicles and infantry. I DO believe that the Skyguard may be overpriced, even though it is effective, used properly. I prefer the AA max, and I have been taken out many times from the ground by lock on rockets..

However I must commend Wahooo for writing this:

If it can't be refunded then I ask for the skyguard to be placed in the decorative slot on the lighting because if the intention is to keep it in its current state as something to simply scare aircraft it belongs in the same category as the skull helmets for infantry.

lmao

I think that the lightning SHOULD be given a slot (maybe unlockable after X amount of kills with it) that allows a secondary weapon. Like in PS1. They would have a light tank cannon and a small chaingun. The Skyguard could fill the role of that small chaingun. Fair? I think so, if it's just a deterrant.