Higby on Air/AA balance.. Is it the fast track to Airside? - Page 24

Dragonskin · 2012-12-06, 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by Wahooo

uh...
Flak:
- Minor damage increase
- Projectile speed increase

Still not clear if this change is specific to SG and Turrets or across the board and includes burster. Also not clear on how much. Higby responded with changes are a 'nudge' so we'll see.

I still think projetile speed from the SG needed a shove not a nudge and that damage would need to wait and see what the speed change did. But meh...

We will have to see.. but going to go ahead and say that SG tread heads will probably not be happy because they still want ground to deter air.. not straight 1 shot it like the people in these forums would like.

Turrets didn't suffer from a lack of damage.. if you could actually hit a target with a turret it did work. The issue with turrets is they have low armor/hp and have a horrible COF making it impossible to reliably hit air while air can perfectly hit the turrets.

Whiteagle · 2012-12-06, 06:32 AM

Originally Posted by Rodel

If I might direct your memories back to the beta. During the beta, AA was powered up and the result was not fun for people who play this game to fly. They were pretty useless then. Now they can fight over the front line and still get away once they encounter AA. That said AA still makes it so enemy air can't just hover and is forced to retreat. But if you want air superiority you need to send your own birds up. In Beta air superiority was one skyguard.

My point is that if AA gets over powered then, trust me, the game is not as fun as if air gets the upperhand. What I'd think is OP are the rocket pods. You might have a case there.

I don't really remember that period...

I remember when Libs ruled the skies with Default Zephers after the wipe removed all AA other then Turrets... and when Reavers ruled the skies when the NC farmed Esamir for Rocket Pod Auraxium just after its release plus another wipe remove all AA but the turrets and a single Burster arm...

Should a single Skyguard control the skies?
No...
Should a single Skyguard make enemy aircraft in the area weary?
Hell's yes!

Originally Posted by Dragonskin

We will have to see.. but going to go ahead and say that SG tread heads will probably not be happy because they still want ground to deter air.. not straight 1 shot it like the people in these forums would like.

Again, I don't want the Skyguard to insta-own... I just want to be able to kill people with it!

It was fine somewhere near the end of Beta... I could kill a decent amount of aircraft, but a GOOD Rocketpodder would own my ass.

Originally Posted by Dragonskin

Turrets didn't suffer from a lack of damage.. if you could actually hit a target with a turret it did work. The issue with turrets is they have low armor/hp and have a horrible COF making it impossible to reliably hit air while air can perfectly hit the turrets.

Yeah, I guess so...

Thing is, they've always had that erratic firing pattern, so I'm guessing something in the actual damage equation that was what they had stealth nerfed from Beta...

I don't know if it was the actual damage, or the effective DPS of Flak Burst being reduced due to the same bug that's gimping the Skyguard.

MrBloodworth · 2012-12-06, 10:25 AM

EDIT:

Originally Posted by maradine

Comments like this make me giggle, because they demonstrate the implicit double standard used in the ESF-as-rambo argument.

Not sure why it would, because this is not my position, but that of those in this thread, and especially on the OF and other sources. They just pussyfoot around saying it.

Originally Posted by Helwyr

The guy has no real arguments, his posts in this thread are mostly trolling, he even makes political troll comments.

Hardly.

Balance changes are coming

http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/i...balance.60507/

They're small and maintain the deterrent philosophy but it might actually allow unorganized bombing and flybys within a certain airspace to be less effective than they are now when an AA net is established.

Great changes that illustrate exactly what I was talking about. Many players have a mentality ( because I can't say the proper term, apparently ) that if its not perfect, it should be torn down. IE: Ground AA should one shot Air.

But the changes proposed respect the original philosophy and not not swing the pendulum right back to the other side. Thankfully, the PS2 team understands the concept of counter play. This maintains Air to Air combat, as well as augments and gives new opportunities to ground based units.

I look forward to see how the changes pan out in practice. I do, personally feel removing the dumb fire ability of the standard launchers may have been to much, but i understand the need to create a role for the decimater.

You guys have a good day.

KaskaMatej · 2012-12-06, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

Great changes that illustrate exactly what I was talking about. Many players have a mentality ( because I can't say the proper term, apparently ) that if its not perfect, it should be torn down. IE: Ground AA should one shot Air.

Keep fooling yourself thinking AA is worth using. With the patch, AA might be even good, we don't know yet but as of now AA is bad at what it should and can do.

Dragonskin · 2012-12-06, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by KaskaMatej

Keep fooling yourself thinking AA is worth using. With the patch, AA might be even good, we don't know yet but as of now AA is bad at what it should and can do.

I still disagree. Last night with a couple dual burster MAXs and a couple HA's with Nemesis rockets we effectively held down an objective outside of NC's warpgate for over 30 minutes while continious air spawned from their warpgate.

They eventually overpowered us with Vanguards and Lightnings.

AA is not currently underpowered as a whole. Just Skyguards and base mounted AA turrets. Regardless a patch is coming so we will have to see how the balance of power plays out with the updates. I have a feeling AA will over power air again.. and I think the balance will seesaw back and forth for awhile to come.

Whiteagle · 2012-12-06, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

Great changes that illustrate exactly what I was talking about. Many players have a mentality ( because I can't say the proper term, apparently ) that if its not perfect, it should be torn down. IE: Ground AA should one shot Air.

...How do you not understand this?

Ground AA in it's current state IS NO THREAT TO AIRCRAFT!!!
It takes at least three AA turrets for most pilots to realise they are being SHOT AT!
You can not have a "Deterrent" without some kind of threat to actually back it up.

Right now you need MASSIVE amounts of concentrated ground AA to down a SINGLE AIRCRAFT!
Why do pilots need to fear us if WE CANNOT SHOOT THEM DOWN!

Originally Posted by KaskaMatej

Keep fooling yourself thinking AA is worth using. With the patch, AA might be even good, we don't know yet but as of now AA is bad at what it should and can do.

Let us hope...

Originally Posted by Dragonskin

AA is not currently underpowered as a whole. Just Skyguards and base mounted AA turrets. Regardless a patch is coming so we will have to see how the balance of power plays out with the updates. I have a feeling AA will over power air again.. and I think the balance will seesaw back and forth for awhile to come.

Yeah, I agreed with the same over at the offical forums, and hope they will look at buffing Flak individually by weapon instead of just across the board.

MrBloodworth · 2012-12-06, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Whiteagle

Ground AA in it's current state IS NO THREAT TO AIRCRAFT!!!

You are wrong.

Whiteagle · 2012-12-06, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

You are wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=Yvd5qXO-A6A

...AM I?!?!

Have you actually BOTHERED to pull a Skyguard?

MrBloodworth · 2012-12-06, 11:58 AM

Yep, we run many. You are wrong. You should stop making definitive statements.

Whiteagle · 2012-12-06, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

Yep, we run many. You are wrong. You should stop making definitive statements.

HOW many?!?!

Because I find it rather bullshit that my Anti-Air Tank apparently needs to run in packs of four, supported by a SQUAD OF AA MAXES, just to seem "Effective"...

maradine · 2012-12-06, 01:10 PM

How about we all just play the changes for a week and start this fresh next Tuesday, yeah?

Whiteagle · 2012-12-06, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by maradine

How about we all just play the changes for a week and start this fresh next Tuesday, yeah?

...Did they put the changes in today, or was that next Tuesday?

maradine · 2012-12-06, 01:26 PM

Dunno. All I'm saying is, the state of the world is changing, let's put it through its paces and argue anew another day.

MrBloodworth · 2012-12-06, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by maradine

How about we all just play the changes for a week and start this fresh next Tuesday, yeah?

Indeed.

ShadetheDruid · 2012-12-06, 01:45 PM

I think the changes/additions are next thursday, today is just new carbines and sniper rifles.