Time to get rid of HE rounds - Page 2

Sturmhardt · 2012-12-12, 01:55 AM

Yeah.. They can be pretty ridiculous if a tower is camped by 3 he tanks and they shoot in every hole like Peter North...

Infernalis · 2012-12-12, 02:17 AM

HE splash damage is still too huge imo, even if most of the problem comes from spawning. I would either reduce the whole splash area or reduce the damage the farthest from the center of explosion.

cooonips · 2012-12-12, 02:32 AM

they mostly just need to give better rewards for killing a vehicle.

Moodel · 2012-12-12, 02:50 AM

There's an easy answer to this and it does not require the removal or 'nerfing' of HE rounds.

Stop being sheep and spawning in the same area.

Better yet get more Sunderers and have multiple attack routes. Spread the battle line thin over a wider area and stop bunching. Maximize terrain.

ShadetheDruid · 2012-12-12, 04:00 AM

Hunting HE Lightnings in my HEAT Lightning is always fun, I love watching their rounds start bouncing harmlessly off me while I pound their tank. And you can always see the suddenly realisation on the part of the other driver that they're screwed, it's when they're down to half health after a couple of hits and start trying to reverse in a panic. Delicious..

..Wait, where was I?

Oh right.. Yeah, if we couldn't camp spawns and easily shoot into places like towers, there wouldn't be this problem. They could probably still tweak HE blasts, but spawn/building design are the main issue here (as always).

Btw, every time this comes up I wonder why people who know that spamming spawn rooms is an easy mode arsehole move still do it. Why just, you know, not? If you don't find it fun anyway, then you're doing everyone (including yourself) a favour by refusing to do it.

Mavvvy · 2012-12-12, 04:33 AM

Originally Posted by Moodel

There's an easy answer to this and it does not require the removal or 'nerfing' of HE rounds.

Stop being sheep and spawning in the same area.

Better yet get more Sunderers and have multiple attack routes. Spread the battle line thin over a wider area and stop bunching. Maximize terrain.

Indeed, or just maybe a couple of ap tanks to counter the HE tank spam. But hey who wants to use teamwork when you have a good farm going on.

The next part is not necessarily related to the above but its something which has kinda been hovering in the background of many a thread.

That is what is infuriating me a bit at times, balance complaints when the counters are not being used, because everyone wants the route to the quickest skill-points. Probably more of an indicator of the skillpoint mechanic not working more then anyone's fault. Up the reward for tank kills and maybe more people will spec ap tanks.

That said it would have been nice if tanks were designed more in a semi-realistic way, ie you unlocked shell types and were limited to say 8 specialist shells of ap and he and could switch between them (keeping a full complement of heat). This in my opinion would have been more balanced.

Bags · 2012-12-12, 04:40 AM

Yes, I agree, the enemy should be forced to use teamwork to counter me, alone in my magrider farming them.

Figment · 2012-12-12, 04:49 AM

Originally Posted by Wahooo

This is the problem. HE is not.

It's just as easy to use in the field. They're both problems. :/

Radius increase should come with damage drop-off increase.

AND WHERE ARE OUR EMP GRENADES?!

Mavvvy · 2012-12-12, 05:10 AM

Originally Posted by Figment

It's just as easy to use in the field. They're both problems. :/

Radius increase should come with damage drop-off increase.

AND WHERE ARE OUR EMP GRENADES?!

302 Found

Hell at this stage I'd take a emp cannon

KaskaMatej · 2012-12-12, 05:50 AM

Originally Posted by Figment

AND WHERE ARE OUR EMP GRENADES?!

Infiltrators have EMP nades but they are very weak. They disable infantry's weapons, shields and HUD for few seconds, and they possibly disable vehicle weapons (I know my squad was complaining I EMP-d ours and theirs Sundy and nobody was able to shoot) but the duration is so short it's not really worth it.

If it were permanent (until repaired), then we would be talking about useful. Especially if EMP nades would disable the vehicle entirely (weapons, engines, abilities) they might even be worth 200 certs.

As regards to HE rounds, they are fine IMO. The player using them bought them (with smedbux or certs) and are weaker against vehicles than HEAT or AP rounds but better against infantry.

Figment · 2012-12-12, 06:18 AM

Originally Posted by KaskaMatej

Infiltrators have EMP nades but they are very weak. They disable infantry's weapons, shields and HUD for few seconds, and they possibly disable vehicle weapons (I know my squad was complaining I EMP-d ours and theirs Sundy and nobody was able to shoot) but the duration is so short it's not really worth it.

If it were permanent (until repaired), then we would be talking about useful. Especially if EMP nades would disable the vehicle entirely (weapons, engines, abilities) they might even be worth 200 certs.

Haven't used it yet, but it's not IFF anymore? Interesting. Did you get grief for it?

What was the duration? PS1 was around 10-15seconds (ample time) on vehicles and what, 30 seconds on infantry + reset implants lasted up to a minute due to their charge times.

Should be an available tool for all infantry though. If anything it's a last ditch defense to get away.

As regards to HE rounds, they are fine IMO. The player using them bought them (with smedbux or certs) and are weaker against vehicles than HEAT or AP rounds but better against infantry.

Your excuse is pretty much "they paid to win in that area". It's fine they made a tank weapon that's more effective against infantry, but there are limits to how more effective one thing should become. Tbh, it's too effective. Consider you went from five shots (HEAT) to one shot (HE) and with what seems like double the splash radius. That's several big buffs compared to HEAT, really.

Hence HEAT Lightning takes significantly more skill to use with its six shots, even if the rof is a little bit high IMO. Would rather have a bigger clip and slightly lower rof.

Over · 2012-12-12, 06:29 AM

I don't agree that they should remove them. That is going to annoy a large number of players including myself who do use them from time to time when the situation calls for it.

With that in mind, the only logical solution I can see is to half their damage to vehicles making it an effective weapon to use against infantry only. Perhaps reduce the area of effect slightly (only slightly). If people want to gimp themselves to farm infantry then they should in no way stand up against armor.

Anyone else agree?

Mavvvy · 2012-12-12, 06:36 AM

How do people find fully spec flak armour currently?

Qwan · 2012-12-12, 07:16 AM

Wow how can we sit here and blame the HE round for stupidness. Ok lets say you spawn in a ENEMY SURROUNDED BASE with tanks at the spawn room. Do you

1. Run out the spawn room door and get splattered
2. Spawn at a different locations and regroup
3. Rage quite and go play CoD because you own in that game.

I think its all about playing smarter, if the spawn room is camped dont spawn there. HE rounds are just that HE!!! rounds High Explosive, there suppose to do splash damage. Being prior military myself, we were told if your out of Bullets on your Coax machine gun, switch to HE rounds to engage troop in the open. If those troops are dumb enough to run out of a surrounded spawn room then maybe they need to die.

KaskaMatej · 2012-12-12, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by Figment

Haven't used it yet, but it's not IFF anymore? Interesting. Did you get grief for it?

What was the duration? PS1 was around 10-15seconds (ample time) on vehicles and what, 30 seconds on infantry + reset implants lasted up to a minute due to their charge times.

Should be an available tool for all infantry though. If anything it's a last ditch defense to get away.

It does no damage but it has effected everyone it hit, friendlies and enemies., in Beta. I haven't gotten them yet in release but I actually never seen anyone using them either.

Originally Posted by Figment

Your excuse is pretty much "they paid to win in that area".

No, not an excuse, a reasoning for specialization. Not many would use Lightning tanks if there were no HE, HEAT and AP cannons (Skyguards are a different thing) because stock cannon is bad at best. IMO.